Joe Root vs Virat Kohli vs Kane Williamson in Tests

[straw man]

Who’s yoko?

Lara Bingle

 

[Burgey]

if he was sri lankan no one would mention him in the same breath as the fab 4

Of course not, for the same reason no one rated Tikolo or RTD in the same class as players form real cricketing countries. As has been noted, context matters.

 

[Burgey]

I should say, I don't really know or care if that's actually true, I was just up for a Flem pile on.

 

[TheJediBrah]

We know that Tikolo and RTD weren't actually that good and if they were from another country no one would ever have given them a second thought right? Tikolo in particular only stood out because the rest of his team was so **** in comparison

 

[_00_deathscar]

Who’s yoko?

John Lennon’s wife. Hope this helps.

 

[thierry henry]

I don't necessarily disagree with Kane being 3rd, but I could swear he is coming off his best season ever yet has simultaneously dropped dramatically in terms of the perception of him? Bizarre.

 

[thierry henry]

Like Kane was way ahead of Root, then he went and averaged 1,000 last summer, won the WTC, Kohli scored no runs at all.....and now Kane is a clear third.

 

[Daemon]

Like Kane was way ahead of Root, then he went and averaged 1,000 last summer, won the WTC, Kohli scored no runs at all.....and now Kane is a clear third.

That was more of a in current form thing.

If you’re looking at form Kohli might not even crack the NZ XI.

 

[thierry henry]

That was more of a in current form thing.

If you’re looking at form Kohli might not even crack the NZ XI.

What was a current form thing? I just mean that when comparing careers, Kane always used to be right in this discussion and Root was slipping out of it. Kane has just come off a record-breaking season and somehow has gone way backwards in people's estimation. I understand it but it's also kinda weird.

Also definitely feel like Kane's record in various countries is largely a function of tiny sample sizes and short series, but that's a whole can of worms. From an "actually watched all of it" perspective, Kane letting us down overseas just isn't a thing.

 

[Daemon]

What was a current form thing? I just mean that when comparing careers, Kane always used to be right in this discussion and Root was slipping out of it. Kane has just come off a record-breaking season and somehow has gone way backwards in people's estimation. I understand it but it's also kinda weird.

Also definitely feel like Kane's record in various countries is largely a function of tiny sample sizes and short series, but that's a whole can of worms. From an "actually watched all of it" perspective, Kane letting us down overseas just isn't a thing.

As in I think the sentiment since the end of Kohli’s glorious 2016 has largely been Kane>Kohli~Root until Root’s 2021. However this was usually based on current form and not a comparison of their careers.

 

[thierry henry]

Also reckon the key nuance that gets left out here (which also affects KW's overseas records against various teams) is that Kane had a whole chunk of his career where he just wasn't good, and we all accept that. And he was between 20-22 years old.

He is still SECOND BEHIND BRADMAN for all batsmen ever, beyond age 23 (for average, 2000+ runs).

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[thierry henry]

I really think people don't realise how similar "freakish Smith" and "freakish Kane" have been statistically, just because Smith wasn't required to play all the way through the phase where he wasn't very good.

 

[thierry henry]

......also interesting to see how Martin Crowe figures quite highly on that list FWIW

 

[Burner]

As in I think the sentiment since the end of Kohli’s glorious 2016 has largely been Kane>Kohli~Root until Root’s 2021. However this was usually based on current form and not a comparison of their careers.

Nah, I don't think so. Up until Kohli's recent slump I think the sentiment was that he was clearly second best to Smith.

 

[Athlai]

Look at all you boomers.

The Fab four aren't the Beatles.

Also reckon the key nuance that gets left out here (which also affects KW's overseas records against various teams) is that Kane had a whole chunk of his career where he just wasn't good, and we all accept that. And he was between 20-22 years old.

He is still SECOND BEHIND BRADMAN for all batsmen ever, beyond age 23 (for average, 2000+ runs).

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Haha I literally made this exact argument

 

[Gob]

I really think people don't realise how similar "freakish Smith" and "freakish Kane" have been statistically, just because Smith wasn't required to play all the way through the phase where he wasn't very good.

Well he played as a bowler for a while so I don't know

 

[Spark]

I really think people don't realise how similar "freakish Smith" and "freakish Kane" have been statistically, just because Smith wasn't required to play all the way through the phase where he wasn't very good.

Hmm it's not like Smith missed that many Tests between his two stints: a tour of SL, a brief tour of SA, a home series against NZ, a home series in India (where you'd think he'd have cashed in batting 6 because of how utterly facile that series got after the first game) and half an away series against India. That's, what, ten games? In between that he had a solid Shield season which basically got him his recall after everyone in front of him forgot to do their homework, so it's not like he was batting poorly.

 

[Gob]

Hmm it's not like Smith missed that many Tests between his two stints: a tour of SL, a brief tour of SA, a home series against NZ, a home series in India (where you'd think he'd have cashed in batting 6 because of how utterly facile that series got after the first game) and half an away series against India. That's, what, ten games? In between that he had a solid Shield season which basically got him his recall after everyone in front of him forgot to do their homework, so it's not like he was batting poorly.

He also went through a development phase in tests as well so it wasn't like he magically figured the game in first class cricket and appeared in the test scene. Smith who replaced Clarke in Mohali 13 was far from the finished product. He had made strides from being dropped in 10/11 but i'd say the consistent version came around 14/15 Border Gavaskar trophy so there must have been around 17 tests in-between while getting from the first point to the second

 

[Spark]

Yeah but Smith who replaced Clarke in Mohali was already a much better batsman than he was at, say, Melbourne 18 months prior, and already probably one of the best three or four batsmen in the country.

I actually think his true breakout tour was his away tour of SA. That was when he looked the real deal IMO, before then he was a bit rocks or diamonds.

 

[Flem274*]

i thought smith broke through in india? continued his domestic cricket trend that year of scoring 50s but struggling to convert iirc.

That was more of a in current form thing.

If you’re looking at form Kohli might not even crack the NZ XI.

nah bro we'll find some room for him. no captaincy, tell him to calm the **** down, gets to face loads of tall outswing bowling in the nets...he'll be fine.