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Jayasuriya v Ponting in odi as cricketers

Migara

Migara

International Coach
Ikki said:
Jayasuriya's a pretty handy ODI bowler to have but it's often overstated how good he is with the ball. Unless you're regularly taking cheap/quick wickets then it's not a fantastic talking point IMO in ODIs. In 444 ODIs he has 8 4fers and 4 5fers. Sure, it is something that he has that Ponting doesn't, really, to any degree but Ponting is far ahead in terms of batting, captaincy and fielding.
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It was not his guty to take five fors. Vaas, Murali and Malinga were there there to take them. His ws to bowl 10 good tight overs. But additionally Jaya bowled the death too, and was SL's best death bowler in 96-2000 era until the emergence of Malinga.


I'd consider Dilshan comparable and even he doesn't touch Ponting when he was at his peak.
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That I'll agree. But Jayasuriya at his peak beats Dilshan hands down in the field, and that was without proper fielding coaches. Imagine if he was coached like Dilshan!

I think people underestimate just how hard it is to be that much better than even very
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No one claims Ponting was inferior to Jayasuriya in the field. The argument is Ponting was not miles better than Jaya in the field.
 
Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
The thing with Ponting's (or anyone else's) fielding is that you simply can't measure it statistically.

Ponting's fielding isn't just about runouts he affects. It's those times that batsmen don't risk taking on his arm and turn down singles that might be easy singles if you've hit it near Monty Panesar. This keeps the run rate down, allows a bowler to bowl more economically by bowling to his field more, and keeps batsmen on strike more which can possibly bring about wickets due to frustrated strokes. It's also the boundaries he saves with an athletic piece of fielding, when a well placed shot might get by a less athletic, brilliant fielder.

That's the true value of a Ponting in the ring in ODI cricket. It simply cannot be qualified statistically in any sort of meaningful way, which renders comparisons between Ponting's fielding and Jayasuriya's bowling useless.
 
0RI0N

0RI0N

State 12th Man
^^^ aye Brother Gingerfurball, testify (in a Desmond Hume voice).
Were umadkats srsly arguing about Jaya's bowling vs Teh Punter's fielding (which cannot and is not measured in cricket. Inb4 fielding can be measured).
Lulz Seriously?
Inb4 they continue arguing.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Teja. said:
Fielding is the worst art to measure by peak imo. Jayasurya being a elite fielder in the first few years of his career does not mean he can be compared to Ponting who was elite for fifteen. You don't measure fielding by just how good one was at their peak, It's an overall comparison.

I'm not participating in the discussion bout Jaya's bowling vs Ponting's fielding btw but I reckon, like Ikki, that Jayasury's bowling is somewhat overstated on a general level.
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who said he was only good at his peak though? He was good all along.. And Ponting AFAIC has not been as good in the field as he was earlier in the last 3 or 4 years...
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
GingerFurball said:
The thing with Ponting's (or anyone else's) fielding is that you simply can't measure it statistically.

Ponting's fielding isn't just about runouts he affects. It's those times that batsmen don't risk taking on his arm and turn down singles that might be easy singles if you've hit it near Monty Panesar. This keeps the run rate down, allows a bowler to bowl more economically by bowling to his field more, and keeps batsmen on strike more which can possibly bring about wickets due to frustrated strokes. It's also the boundaries he saves with an athletic piece of fielding, when a well placed shot might get by a less athletic, brilliant fielder.

That's the true value of a Ponting in the ring in ODI cricket. It simply cannot be qualified statistically in any sort of meaningful way, which renders comparisons between Ponting's fielding and Jayasuriya's bowling useless.
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So how may catches you saw Jayasuriya dropping before his 37th birthday?
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
It's not about catches they dropped, it's catches they took that other fielders wouldn't.
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
Spark said:
It's not about catches they dropped, it's catches they took that other fielders wouldn't.
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Which becomes negligible minimum (1 in 10 matches when you consider Jaya was one of the best in his generation), and Jaya's bowling overwhelmingly becomes more useful than Ponting's fielding brilliances.
 
Burgey

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Migara said:
Which becomes negligible minimum (1 in 10 matches when you consider Jaya was one of the best in his generation), and Jaya's bowling overwhelmingly becomes more useful than Ponting's fielding brilliances.
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You think Jayasuriya was one of the best fielders of his generation? Or am I misconstruing what you're saying here?
 
Tom 1972

Tom 1972

School Boy/Girl Captain
0RI0N said:
Difficult decision is difficult.
Both boss batsmen no doubt.
Sanath's savage batting and canny clever spinners, 8 4fers and 4 5fers.
Ponting's skippership and great ODI leadership esp. WC's (dealwithithaters.pdf) and consistent attacking batting and amazing fielding.
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Jayasuria's bowling was nothing special:
322 wickets because he played 444 games. Average of nearly 37.
Strike rate of 46 and econ rate of 4.78 is par at best.

Average, strike rate, econ rate of his contemparies shows he is definitely not an ATG ODI bowler.
Warne 25.7, 36.3, 4.25
Murali 23.2, 35.2, 3.92
Brett Lee 23, 29, 4.73
S.Pollock 24.5, 40, 3.67
McGrath 22, 34, 3.9

Ponting for mine...
 
A

abmk

State 12th Man
honestbharani said:
I seriously beg to differ.. There were many better, including some from Asia itself... He is a great fielder, I am not denying that but I am just saying the difference between a great and a good fielder does not compensate completely for the benefits that are given to the side by Jaya's bowling.. For the record, I am going with Ponting in this debate, but I believe Jayasuriya is being massively undersold in this thread by some..
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better at hitting the stumps ? no one is/was better than punter at that, not even jonty

ponting's fielding does not compensate for jaya's bowling, no doubt, that's why I chose jaya over ponting overall as a cricketer. But IMO, as good as sanath was , ponting was clearly the better fielder. Sanath was very good, but punter was/is an ATG fielder

honestbharani said:
Nah.. There is no conclusive way to prove that.. Jayasuriya was in the outfield more often than not, so he did not have the same opportunities Punter had in the infield, doesn't mean all those high balls he would have taken or the run forward and takes were easy...
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Still we've seen him on the field many times, considering he played 400+ matches. Its not that sanath didn't get chances to showcase his catching skills
 
A

abmk

State 12th Man
Bun said:
Jayasurya scores runs at a better rate and more or less ensure that he turns out a net positive return for Sri lanka if one ought to blindly deduct what he costs while bowling from what he scores. He scores roughly as many runs as he gives away per match, but at a superior ER so a team comprised of 11 Jayasuryas are going to win almost every match they play.

Ponting on the other hand scores about 43 runs at a SR of 80, which means if he bats 300 balls, his team would score 240 which is below par. He contributes nothing with the ball remember, so this means an additional bowler is needed to take care of that aspect.

Battingwise Ponting scores about 10 extra runs every innings than Jaya but also consumes 18 more deliveries to do so. Bowling wise, Ponting contributes nothing while Jayasurya zips away 7 overs for 33 which takes a lot of pressure of frontline bowlers and lets SL play an extra batsman or bowler as they wish.
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this extrapolation makes as much sense as Ikki's arguments about comparing contributions of sanath's bowling to ponting's fielding :dry:
 
A

abmk

State 12th Man
Tom 1972 said:
I understand stats are only a small part of the equation. 8-)

However I really doubt that SJ would make loads of people's all time XIs. Ponting probably would.
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only because they'd probably chose sachin/gilly to open , not necessarily because ponting's the better ODI player
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
robinjr said:
hmm sensing a slight debate between Jayasuria and Ponting on fielding...shocking really.i"m going to go down the Tendulkar fanboy road and dig Youtube clips..

YouTube - Ponting Catcch Second Test v NZ
YouTube - Pointing's awesome catch
YouTube - ponting catch
YouTube - Ricky Ponting Catch

surely Sanath was a level below
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nobody denies that but being one level below in fielding from an ATG fielder will make how much of a difference to a team? The comparison so far has been like saying that Viv's fielding was more important to his side than his bowling (if I combine the debate for one cricketer).
 
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