Jayasuriya v Ponting in odi as cricketers

[honestbharani]

I don't see the fuss here.. Jayasuriya was a good to very good fielder in his career.. Ponting is a "great" fielder.. But I do not think the difference between them as fielders comes anywhere near neturalizing what Jayasuriya's bowling offers to a team. But I still rate Ponting as an all timer among ODI batsmen and therefore, would pick him before Jayasuriya in my AT XI...

 

[honestbharani]

jonty ?

I would rephrase no one else could to very very few could

regarding ponting, how about a freak catch like this ?

YouTube - Ricky Ponting's Amazing Catch of Sachin Tendulkar

how about these ?

YouTube - Ricky Ponting Catch

YouTube - Ponting catch

Again, I think those sort of catches can be taken by some of the very best fielders in the world.. Not like Ponting is the only one who could.. Simple, really.. Ponting is a great fielder but not the best in ODIs for me... Jayasuriya is not at Ponting's level as a fielder but he is not that much below him that it offsets the value his bowling gives him over Ponting...



If you guys were arguing that Ponting was SO good as an ODI batsman that he should make it ahead of Jayasuriya, perhaps there might be a point. We all know he is a great fielder but it is not like he was the Bradman among fielders.. I would say he is the Marshall among fielders, as in among the best but not undisputed best.

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't see the fuss here.. Jayasuriya was a good to very good fielder in his career.. Ponting is a "great" fielder.. But I do not think the difference between them as fielders comes anywhere near neturalizing what Jayasuriya's bowling offers to a team

Not often I do this so I'm going to savour it...



AWTA.

 

[Spark]

Yeah, Mark Waugh was the better Test fielder IMO; Ponting was comfortably the better ODI fielder though. I don't think I've seen people distinguish between formats for fielding on CricketWeb before (other than me) but I really do think it's warranted as the value of different things is so different in each format. In Test cricket, it's 95% about catching for me - If you drop a catch it's a massive, massive let off, and players who don't do that, particularly those who field in slips, and invaluable - saving a couple of runs has a very negligible impact in Tests are run-outs are far rarer, so anything beyond catching is really a bonus. In ODIs, saving runs builds a lot more pressure and is intrinsically more valuable with the limited overs; not to mention the fact that batsmen take more risks with their running so run outs are always on if you can do something special. I'd put ground fielding up to 40 or even 50% in weighting.

Yeah indeed. You'll see at least two or three genuine run out opportunities in every one day match.

 

[abmk]

Again, I think those sort of catches can be taken by some of the very best fielders in the world.. Not like Ponting is the only one who could.. Simple, really.. Ponting is a great fielder but not the best in ODIs for me... Jayasuriya is not at Ponting's level as a fielder but he is not that much below him that it offsets the value his bowling gives him over Ponting...



If you guys were arguing that Ponting was SO good as an ODI batsman that he should make it ahead of Jayasuriya, perhaps there might be a point. We all know he is a great fielder but it is not like he was the Bradman among fielders.. I would say he is the Marshall among fielders, as in among the best but not undisputed best.

agree here. The only part where I disagreed with was the direct hits part.

 

[TumTum]

It would be awesome if somebody could dig up or upload these 2 fielding efforts in the same series vs Pakistan:

1. Ponting's slip catch and run out at the same time.

2. White and Ponting run out misses at the same time.

Both so awesome

 

[smash84]

I really really REALLY do not think Ponting took catches that NO ONE else could.. EVER. I have only thought that way about one fielder, esp. in tests, Mark Waugh..

This

Yeah, Mark Waugh was the better Test fielder IMO; Ponting was comfortably the better ODI fielder though. I don't think I've seen people distinguish between formats for fielding on CricketWeb before (other than me) but I really do think it's warranted as the value of different things is so different in each format. In Test cricket, it's 95% about catching for me - If you drop a catch it's a massive, massive let off, and players who don't do that, particularly those who field in slips, and invaluable. Saving a couple of runs has a very negligible impact in Tests and run-outs are far rarer, so anything beyond catching is really just a bonus. In ODIs, saving runs builds a lot more pressure and is intrinsically more valuable with the limited overs; not to mention the fact that batsmen take more risks with their running so run outs are always on if you can do something special. I'd put ground fielding up to 40 or even 50% in weighting.

and THIS

 

[Debris]

Again, I think those sort of catches can be taken by some of the very best fielders in the world.. Not like Ponting is the only one who could.. Simple, really.. Ponting is a great fielder but not the best in ODIs for me... Jayasuriya is not at Ponting's level as a fielder but he is not that much below him that it offsets the value his bowling gives him over Ponting...

Ponting could be the greatest fieldsman ever and Jayasuriya the worst and it would still not off-set the value of Jayasuriya's bowling. Bowling is so much more valuable than fielding.

 

[Spark]

Don't know about that tbf. If you're letting through say, 10, 15 runs a match and dropping a catch or two you'd have to be very bloody good at bowling to make up for it.

 

[benchmark00]

Jayasuriya's bowling was nothing more than serviceable. I'm pretty sure I could put a chimp in coloured clothing and teach him to bowl off breaks which got the occasional wicket. He's in the David Hussey mould of bowling, handy to have, but the team could still have success without it.

Jaya's real beauty in came in his intent. He and Kalu obviously revolutionised how ODI batting innings started off.

So the real question is whether or not you'd rather take a gamble on Jaya in the knowledge that if it comes off, you probably win the game, or do you go with the player who is more steady, assured, but with the potential to explode (to a lesser degree)?

Personally, I'd pick Ponting.

 

[biased indian]

Don't know about that tbf. If you're letting through say, 10, 15 runs a match and dropping a catch or two you'd have to be very bloody good at bowling to make up for it.

a good fielder wont do that and dont remember jayasuriya being such a poor filder

 

[benchmark00]

a good fielder wont do that and dont remember jayasuriya being such a poor filder

A great fielder in the circle will regularly 'save' 15 or so runs a game itbt.

 

[akilana]

A very good fielder would save 14 runs or around.

 

[Ikki]

Ponting could be the greatest fieldsman ever and Jayasuriya the worst and it would still not off-set the value of Jayasuriya's bowling. Bowling is so much more valuable than fielding.

Jayasuriya's bowling was nothing more than serviceable. I'm pretty sure I could put a chimp in coloured clothing and teach him to bowl off breaks which got the occasional wicket. He's in the David Hussey mould of bowling, handy to have, but the team could still have success without it.

That.

 

[Migara]

Jayasuriya's bowling was nothing more than serviceable. I'm pretty sure I could put a chimp in coloured clothing and teach him to bowl off breaks which got the occasional wicket. He's in the David Hussey mould of bowling, handy to have, but the team could still have success without it.

Jaya's real beauty in came in his intent. He and Kalu obviously revolutionised how ODI batting innings started off.

So the real question is whether or not you'd rather take a gamble on Jaya in the knowledge that if it comes off, you probably win the game, or do you go with the player who is more steady, assured, but with the potential to explode (to a lesser degree)?

Personally, I'd pick Ponting.

So you are bowling off spin? The second part is non issue. In an all time XI you can do the gamble because there are enough steady players who are better than Ponting. But you rarely get better players to open the batting than Jaya (other than for SRT and Gilly)

BTW, Jayasuriya bowled slow left arm and bowled at the death. Can we have that hyper-chimp who could do it?

 

[Migara]

Yeah, they were rubbish weren't they?

I thought you just agreed in your next-to-last post that several of the blokes I mentioned were good in their positions? I'm getting confused here now mate.

Where did I say they were crap? care to show please? Jaya was an all round fielder. Position specialists don't count here. Eknath Solkar / Hashan Tillekaratne / David Boon will give a run for their money even for Jonty if you consider fielding at short leg. Claiming SRT, Steve Waugh and few others better than Jayasuriya in the field is borderline farcical stuff. Obviously you have not seen Jayasuriya early in his career. All rond fielders are better fielders than specialist fielders. Especially in the ODI game.

 

[TT Boy]

Jayasuriya's bowling was nothing more than serviceable. I'm pretty sure I could put a chimp in coloured clothing and teach him to bowl off breaks which got the occasional wicket. He's in the David Hussey mould of bowling, handy to have, but the team could still have success without it.

Jaya's real beauty in came in his intent. He and Kalu obviously revolutionised how ODI batting innings started off.

So the real question is whether or not you'd rather take a gamble on Jaya in the knowledge that if it comes off, you probably win the game, or do you go with the player who is more steady, assured, but with the potential to explode (to a lesser degree)?

Personally, I'd pick Ponting.

He wasn't though. Jayasuriya at points of his career was a 10 over man bowler, capable of taking wickets and holding up an end. A prominent and constant figure in the Sri Lanka attack alongside Vaas and Murali. Hussey by contrast has simply found a niche in 20/20 cricket as a part-time bowler but in 50 over cricket is nothing as a bowler. Jayasuriya took nearly 100 test wickets, he could bowl.

 

[smash84]

He wasn't though. Jayasuriya at points of his career was a 10 over man bowler, capable of taking wickets and holding up an end. A prominent and constant figure in the Sri Lanka attack alongside Vaas and Murali. Hussey by contrast has simply found a niche in 20/20 cricket as a part-time bowler but in 50 over cricket is nothing as a bowler. Jayasuriya took nearly 100 test wickets, he could bowl.

True

 

[Teja.]

Reckon Jayasurya's ODI bowling stats are somewhat ruined by his incredible longevity. Most ODI bowlers have decade-long careers, Since I'm too lazy() , I hope Migara or someone highlights Sanath's best 10 year period as a bowler.

 

[chicane]

Jayasuriya's bowling was nothing more than serviceable. I'm pretty sure I could put a chimp in coloured clothing and teach him to bowl off breaks which got the occasional wicket. He's in the David Hussey mould of bowling, handy to have, but the team could still have success without it.

Jaya's real beauty in came in his intent. He and Kalu obviously revolutionised how ODI batting innings started off.

So the real question is whether or not you'd rather take a gamble on Jaya in the knowledge that if it comes off, you probably win the game, or do you go with the player who is more steady, assured, but with the potential to explode (to a lesser degree)?

Personally, I'd pick Ponting.

Yeah Ponting's superior batting, fielding and captaincy makes him more valuable to the team overall, but Jayasuriya was regular bowler quality in ODIs, not just a part-timer. Added so much value with the team balance bonus. Also, very, very good fielder and an awesome batsman himself, absolutely destroyed the opposition with decent consistency. Almost even.