Jacques Kallis vs Shane Warne

[Prince EWS]

Kallis would get dropped under Bazball

Warne would get left out of his county side for the first half of the season for a medium pacer and a batting allrounder.

 

[h_hurricane]

Warne is the better matchwinner in tests. Kallis ensures neither team wins them.

In ODIs, Kallis is the better matchwinner. He ensures opposition wins them.

 

[subshakerz]

Warne is the better matchwinner in tests. Kallis ensures neither team wins them.

In ODIs, Kallis is the better matchwinner. He ensures opposition wins them.

Yup. Nobody was better at ensuring drawn tests on Day One than Kallis. He plays each game as if it was a Timeless Test.

 

[Coronis]

js Kallis scored tons more often in tests his team won than Lara.

 

[subshakerz]

js Kallis scored tons more often in tests his team won than Lara.

Yes because his team won more often.

 

[Coronis]

Yes because his team won more often.

No, in terms of centuries per innings in matches won, Kallis scored tons more often in SA wins than Lara did in WI wins.

Some interesting players who actually averaged below their career averages in wins (i.e they clearly didn’t contribute to their team winning!) (min 1k runs in wins)

Gavaskar 43.97 (51.12)
McCabe 43.89 (48.21)
May 40.10 (46.77)

and of course we have the biggest match winner of all time.

Voges 153.85 (61.87)

Man carried that Aussie team like no other batsman in history.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

No, in terms of centuries per innings in matches won, Kallis scored tons more often in SA wins than Lara did in WI wins.

Some interesting players who actually averaged below their career averages in wins (i.e they clearly didn’t contribute to their team winning!) (min 1k runs in wins)

Gavaskar 43.97 (51.12)
McCabe 43.89 (48.21)
May 40.10 (46.77)

and of course we have the biggest match winner of all time.

Voges 153.85 (61.87)

Man carried that Aussie team like no other batsman in history.

This just proves how **** this metric is.

 

[Coronis]

This just proves how **** this metric is.

Why can’t you admit true greatness when it stares you in the face?

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Why can’t you admit true greatness when it stares you in the face?

Yeah I admit that Voges > Bradman

 

[Coronis]

Yeah I admit that Voges > Bradman

Don’t be silly, he’s not a better batsman, just a better matchwinner. Like Kallis and Lara.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Ironically, Voges was god against us.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Don’t be silly, he’s not a better batsman, just a better matchwinner. Like Kallis and Lara.

I thought the point of batmanship was winning matches

 

[Coronis]

I thought the point of batmanship was winning matches

Nah I think performances in losing/drawn matches also count. (especially drawn)

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Nah I think performances in losing/drawn matches also count. (especially drawn)

So is high or low average in losses better?

 

[Coronis]

So is high or low average in losses better?

idk tbh. Feels like a higher average is generally more indicative of a lone wolf type player, e.g Lara, Shiv, Flower - a player who even if they perform well loses a fair amount. Whilst a lower average could be a player who is important to his team winning i.e when he fails the team fails. Obviously these are just generalisations and each situation will be different.

(note: I don’t seriously use these as metrics to rate players)

You know who rules tho? Sutcliffe again!

Wins: 62.97
Losses: 54.45 (highest of all 1000+ runs - only Hutton (50) and Hobbs (46) also average over 45)
Draws: 64.00 (Bradman finally wins one with 111)

Interestingly continuing on Gavaskar - he averaged 43, 35 and 65 in w/l/d respectively, quite a contrast to the other top 3 openers. (he also has the most runs in draws ever with 6039 - in 67/125 matches)

 

[shortpitched713]

Any given batsman is more likely to average more in draws (especially if there are 5 full days of play). Doesn't mean anything about their match winning capability.

Winning or losing isn't up to just an individual batsman (although they can obviously help a lot).

 

[subshakerz]

Given that Kallis played the exact same way, innings after innings, regardless of match context for much of his career, any variation based on matches won, drawn or lost may be coincidental and statistically irrelevant.

 

[Coronis]

Given that Kallis played the exact same way, innings after innings, regardless of match context for much of his career, any variation based on matches won, drawn or lost may be coincidental and statistically irrelevant.

Blatantly false, but so are a lot of your recent posts.

 

[subshakerz]

Blatantly false, but so are a lot of your recent posts.

That post was sarcastic but the fact that it triggered you is magnificent.

 

[ataraxia]

Gavaskar 43.97 (51.12)
McCabe 43.89 (48.21)
May 40.10 (46.77)

I'm interested in what these guys averaged in draws and losses. I suspect their draw averages will be very high.