Jacques Kallis vs Imran Khan

[shortpitched713]

It's not disingenuous at all to rank players on what they were over what they could potentially be.

Between Kallis and Sobers, which would you take as a specialist bowler?

 

[trundler]

Between Kallis and Sobers, which would you take as a specialist bowler?

Sobers.

 

[shortpitched713]

Don't think there's anything between them, other than the extra options of Sobers, and maybe some longevity. But Kallis is statistically the more incisive of the 2.

To me though, there's no "next best guy", for an all-rounder with specialist bat credentials, after them. Hammond isn't close as a bowler. Think the closest one with the potential to be undisputed 3rd could have been Greig, and I believe he would have become good enough with the bat to take that spot, if not for WSC. But of course, we're not talking about potential, so as it stands Sobers and Kallis are in a league of their own. With Sobers, obviously being the BBB candidate to boot, putting him that level above Kallis.

 

[Coronis]

It is shocking that the bloke who played alongside a strong attack with ATG bowlers was required to bowl less and thus took less wickets than the bloke who bowled with a far worse attack and was required to bowl more.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

It is shocking that the bloke who played alongside a strong attack with ATG bowlers was required to bowl less and thus took less wickets than the bloke who bowled with a far worse attack and was required to bowl more.

I don't think Bumrah, Shami and Ashwin ate far worse than Jadeja

 

[Silver Line]

It is shocking that the bloke who played alongside a strong attack with ATG bowlers was required to bowl less and thus took less wickets than the bloke who bowled with a far worse attack and was required to bowl more.

by playing with such great bowlers who keep taking wickets like a breeze, why does this man average 32?

 

[Coronis]

by playing with such great bowlers who keep taking wickets like a breeze, why does this man average 32?

Because he was a low 30’s average bowler? You’ve clearly completely missed the point of my post.

 

[Silver Line]

Because he was a low 30’s average bowler? You’ve clearly completely missed the point of my post.

exactly mate answered it yourself, regardless of what attack he would be with, Kallis would have been a low 30s average bowler and would have been bowling less and as a fifth option bowler.
seriously he has some of the most games played in history and not a single memory of him running through a side speaks volumes.

goes to further strengthen the debate of imran vs kallis, with imran having multiple noteworthy performances with both skills

 

[Coronis]

exactly mate answered it yourself, regardless of what attack he would be with, Kallis would have been a low 30s average bowler and would have been bowling less and as a fifth option bowler.
seriously he has some of the most games played in history and not a single memory of him running through a side speaks volumes.

goes to further strengthen the debate of imran vs kallis, with imran having multiple noteworthy performances with both skills

It was not an argument in regards to Imran, it was intended as a comment on the common posting of him having a lower WPM and overs than Sobers.

He did have multiple noteworthy bowling performances. If you can’t remember them, I feel quite sorry for you.

 

[Silver Line]

The viral Zaheer Khan and Sachin comparision has seriously caused some misconceptions and memory crisis

as a batsman in tests Kallis is just a slight edge over Sachin so comparable there, but Sachin’s ODI skills outclass him.

zaheer took 311 wickets from 92 games while Kallis took 292 wickets from 166 games. But because the wickets and average is same everyone thinks this guy was some insane allrounder. Zaheer wasnt even good, you can think of Kallis’s bowling now to do it at his average with half the amount of wickets being produced. Its like 2 batsmen averaging 50 and one has twice the amount of runs and you realise the other batsmen’s high not out numbers.

Unfortunately concluding it again, kallis is a great all rounder but does not come close to sobers or imran, and is better contested with the tier below them.

 

[Silver Line]

"He did have multiple noteworthy bowling performances. If you can’t remember them, I feel quite sorry for you.

As coronis said this,coronis then proceeded to quickly run through the internet to find something.
Mate he has no notable bowling performances
he averages 38 vs Aus, 36 vs Eng, 41 vs Ind, 40 vs Pak, 34 vs Nz

ohhh the mighty performances vs west indies, bangladesh and zimbabwe where he has statpadded some incredible numbers there?

 

[shortpitched713]

Low 30s is an acceptable average for bowlers during Kallis's era. And if anything, this line of argumentation throws shade on Sober's bowling prowess too.

It's when you get to upper 30s Test bowling average like Hammond, where you wonder if it's above replacement level bowling talent and can start questioning it's value ( still think Hammond brought bowling value mind, just not as much as a simple wicket tally might suggest ). This is why Sobers and Kallis are a class apart. They can and did bowl well enough to add significant value in that discipline, but also were ATG ( and beyond for Sobers ), level of specialist batsmen.

 

[Silver Line]

Daily reminder guys Kallis without Ban, Zim, WI and SL in bowling averages 37.31 at a strike rate of 76.1

GOAT all round discussion number right here lads. This is what peak all rounders look like

 

[shortpitched713]

Daily reminder guys Kallis without Ban, Zim, WI and SL in bowling averages 37.31 at a strike rate of 76.1

GOAT all round discussion number right here lads. This is what peak all rounders look like

Why are we taking out SL?

 

[The Sean]

My ratio is usually 12 Best consecutive years of batting or 10 consecutive Best years of Bowling. Filtered only against the actual competitive sides of their eras.

for instance I take Pak and Ind as competitive sides from 1970 and onwards. SL from 1990 and onwards etc.

the ratio was determined by me upon analysis of how long a bowler and batsman usually lasts on an average in cricket

Fair enough, thank you.

 

[Socerer 01]

i thought he was up to no good when he took Kallis over Tendulkar at 1st but now he’s shown his worth, this new guy is made for cricketweb

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Difficult one and would depend what your attack was. Imran clearly the better bowler and one of the best ever but Kallis is a far superior bat and fielder. Do you need the captaincy which may tip it in Imrans favour?

Hard to call and the rest of your team would be what you'd use to pick which one you needed most.

Most of the comparisons are easy but a bowling all-rounder or a batting all-rounder is hard to call. Be like saying Stokes or Botham?

 

[number11]

Kallis was a 2nd string bowler. He is obviously the far greater batsman but Imran was a ATG quick and an accomplished bat for a long time. Imran was also the much more impactful cricketer. Kallis was an accumulator, not a destroyer of attacks. Imran was lethal in his prime with the ball.

I can't imagine any captain would pick a Kallis over an Imran if you're looking to win test matches. Bowling AR add more value I feel and Imran is far and away the best bowling AR ever. Sobers is the greatest AR but he is not up for debate here.

 

[Ali TT]

Imran, not even close. Once you take out Bang and Zim, Kallis's bowling would only come into consideration if you wanted a sixth option in an ATXI. He has a shot getting in as a batter.

Difficult one and would depend what your attack was. Imran clearly the better bowler and one of the best ever but Kallis is a far superior bat and fielder. Do you need the captaincy which may tip it in Imrans favour?

Hard to call and the rest of your team would be what you'd use to pick which one you needed most.

Most of the comparisons are easy but a bowling all-rounder or a batting all-rounder is hard to call. Be like saying Stokes or Botham?

But what if you don't know and had to pick blind, who then? This is a hypothetical choice after all.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

The kind of hype Mohinder Amarnath gets makes me think that he would have scored 700+ runs against Australia in a series had he faced peak Johnson from 2014.

Kohli did