-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Jacques Kallis vs Imran Khan
- Thread starter Gob
- Start date
Calm_profit
State Vice-Captain
Imran lacked in fielding in which Kallis excelled but in terms of leadership Imran is ahead of Kallis. So I will go with Imran due to leadership he provides.
smash84
The Tiger King
It's a difficult comparison. Peak Imran > Peak Kallis IMO
but non-peak Kallis > non-peak Imran, meaning Imran scaled greater heights but also plumbed greater depths.
Imran did bring his peak game against great opposition though. It will also depend on whether you rate bowling or batting all rounders higher.
I would go with Imran on this one.
but non-peak Kallis > non-peak Imran, meaning Imran scaled greater heights but also plumbed greater depths.
Imran did bring his peak game against great opposition though. It will also depend on whether you rate bowling or batting all rounders higher.
I would go with Imran on this one.
Victor Ian
International Coach
I have voted Kallis because it has become obvious that he is the benchmark by which we rate all greats.
I did an excercise a few years ago when I was not getting a sleep which was hypothetical not necessarily true or exact, but was just killing time --- i made two teams consisting of eleven Kallis's against eleven Imran khan, in that Kallis team won by the formula that I had designed.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Imran pretty easily.
Ahead in his primary discipline and secondary.
Ahead in his primary discipline and secondary.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I guess he was the better wicket keeper.
Not that - just their averages both bowling and batting - Kallis performed better overall
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Nah. Only posters on online cricket forums would find this a difficult choice.
Imran is in or near the top five pacers of all-time and a proper no.6/7 as a bat. And then was one of the greatest captains ever.
Victor Ian
International Coach
Convince me that Imran was one of the best captain's ever. Apart from getting a bunch of squabbling ****wits to stop squabbling on the field, what did he do as a captain that was great? Any wanker would have bowled Akram and Waqar to success.
Aside from captaincy, when he was a superior bowler to Kallis' batting he was only Hadleeish with the bat. When he was a good batsman, he was only Kallisish with the ball. Kallis wins while Imran was a batsman.
Aside from captaincy, when he was a superior bowler to Kallis' batting he was only Hadleeish with the bat. When he was a good batsman, he was only Kallisish with the ball. Kallis wins while Imran was a batsman.
Socerer 01
International Captain
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Let's see, Imran as captain was unbeaten at home, had first ever victories away in India and England, and three consecutive drawn series against a no.1 WI team ( in fact is the only captain to win a test in the WIs that decade), plus a World Cup and other major trophies. Pakistan briefly reached no.1 in the test rankings in his time, something that would be unthinkable for Pakistan teams prior.
Imran was a teambuilder. He fought for Qadir to return to the side, dropped his own cousin Majid Khan, and picked guys like Inzi and Waqar out of nowhere. The team he left was the best team in Pakistan's history before and since.
He personally groomed Wasim and Waqar on their fitness and bowling techniques so they could have long careers. Wasim would pretty much go every delivery to mid-on to ask Imran what to ball. If you don't think that grooming matters, you don't know Pakistan cricket where bowlers are left to the wolves, and not a single pacer since then, including worldclass talents like Asif and Akthar, has taken 200 wickets for Pakistan.
Wrong again. Imran from his bowling peak from 80 to 88 averaged 40 with the bat and scored four tons. It was only 89 onwards when he took his average from 33 to 37, but he always ahead of Hadlee. One of the biggest myths on CW is that Imran only knew how to bat properly when his bowling faded away.
Last edited:
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Not again.
Victor Ian
International Coach
lol. Imran groomed his proteges. You lost it right there.
Imran the captain is a myth. He did not make Inzi, or Akram, or Younis - They were goig to be great on their own. He managed them well, but only because the team were a pile of **** in terms of managing things before him. Compared to any captain today, with a backroom of support staff, he would have nothing other than good looks and charisma. Is Waugh the best ever captain? How about Viv? Nah - they were captains of the best team ever. Same with Imran. Convince me he is great. What tactics did he employ that won games? Did he make uncanny field changes like Clarke or Taylor or did he just coast on the back of Pakistan's great generation. Did he employ great tactics that inhibited the other teams performances, or did he just let his great team play great and win? I'll concede he probably showed great belief in the players that allowed them to perform with self confidence, but many captains have that. Is he better than McCullum? Convince me he is a great captain. I think it is a myth and he is a product of the players.
Imran the captain is a myth. He did not make Inzi, or Akram, or Younis - They were goig to be great on their own. He managed them well, but only because the team were a pile of **** in terms of managing things before him. Compared to any captain today, with a backroom of support staff, he would have nothing other than good looks and charisma. Is Waugh the best ever captain? How about Viv? Nah - they were captains of the best team ever. Same with Imran. Convince me he is great. What tactics did he employ that won games? Did he make uncanny field changes like Clarke or Taylor or did he just coast on the back of Pakistan's great generation. Did he employ great tactics that inhibited the other teams performances, or did he just let his great team play great and win? I'll concede he probably showed great belief in the players that allowed them to perform with self confidence, but many captains have that. Is he better than McCullum? Convince me he is a great captain. I think it is a myth and he is a product of the players.
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
He got the home umpires on his side, getting every decision his way, allowing constant ball tampering and making it impossible for anyone to win there?
Coronis
International Coach
Wasn’t that why he went into politics? Also probably grooming a next generation there.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Bro, you are talking about the first captain who insisted on neutral umpires, and the first one to use them in a home series.
About ball tampering, let's not get into that debate, but just remember every pace bowler tampered at that time.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
What do you define as a great captain? I gave you several factors why he was a great captain, player support being one, result being another. But if you dont think Imran is a great captain then you might as well say the same about Chappell and others of the past. Of course quality players help your results but in Imran's case he had a central role in getting those players in the team and keeping them there.
You clearly don't know the context of Pakistani cricket. Without strong backup from a captain, personal talent ends up going down the drain, because the institutions wont support you. That was the story of Akthar, Saqlain, Asif and so many other careers that were ruined. Again, why are Wasim and Waqar the only pace bowlers after Imran who could have long careers? Is that just a coincidence or maybe due to the support they got from their captain which they attest to in dozens of interviews and biographies, etc.
None of Akram, Inzi or Younis were going to be great on their own. Imran personally saw Waqar bowling on TV in a local game and picked him in a national side. He fought selectors to get Inzi in the side after they called him a failure. He built a team in his image based on trusting certain players with certain roles much the same way Ganguly did in the 2000s.
Imran introduced a more attacking brand of cricket in Pakistan and achieved better results than any captain before him and better results than the more talented nineities side that came after him. The World Cup win is a lot to due with the self-belief instilled in his captaincy to have a rapid turn around.