GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Was about the only chapter where he wasn't sucking his own dick tbf
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It's the foreign coach , stupid !
- Thread starter SJS
- Start date
NasserFan207
International Vice-Captain
Would you like to be referred to as 'the brown'?Are there any negative connotations associated with Gora? It basically means white. What's offensive about that? Not trolling, genuinely don't know the context. Only recently found out "****" is pretty offensive too
Edit: It got filtered.
Wow never knew it was that bad.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Hi
Yes it s good to connect although I have long back decided not to get into arguments here in fact my photography and travel keeps me away anyway
I do not have an opinion on Ravi as a coach. There is no way for me to say whether he is good or bad. I agree with you that he comes out much better than Gavaskar who is a terrible disappointment as a commentator. Ravi does have a problem of being under contract with BCCI like Gavaskar and some others which prevents him from uttering a word against anything BCCI is supporting at that point in time - DRS for example. Trust me if BCCI comes out hammer and tongs in favour of DRS tomorrow, giving whatever lame excuse they offer for the turnaround, ravi will sing the same tune. This, unfortunately puts a big question mark over his complete neutrality and ability to express his ideas independently. Although, as i just said, he does express them more freely than Gavaskar.
However, the main point of my three opener was not the appointment of Shastri, it was the impression that is sought to be created that the coaching staff is to be blamed for India's travails. That is highly disingenuous and completely avoids the basic issues that face indian cricket today and which BCCi ducks for various reasons.
I have no intention of going into what those are. I think there are quite a few of very good students of the game here on CW who can try and enumerate those.
Edged&Taken
U19 Vice-Captain
Fletcher deserves the boot IMO, but as pointed out above there are structural problems with the BCCI. However as Jono has pointed out, these don't prevent a winning side (in all formats). Doesn't mean they should be ignored though.
EDIT
Just re-read this post, looks like it was typed by four different people at once. Basically Fletcher has been poor, the BCCI need to sort their **** out but even if they don't India can still be successful.
EDIT
Just re-read this post, looks like it was typed by four different people at once. Basically Fletcher has been poor, the BCCI need to sort their **** out but even if they don't India can still be successful.
OverratedSanity
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When the two biggest hopes for the future of Indian batting get found out so badly and no apparent corrections seem to be made throughout a long series and they keep getting out in the same way repeatedly, it's definitely the coach's fault. It's probably a temporary blip in their young careers and maybe Fletcher couldn't have really done anything about it but saying he isn't responsible for what happened is stupid. I thought our team was on the way forward after showing some great signs in NZ and SA, and after Lord's in this series. But we're basically back to square one. We've been "in transition" for ages now. Dumping Fletcher totally makes sense unless someone can point out what he's added to the squad.
Teja.
Global Moderator
Harsh on Rahane and Daylight.
OverratedSanity
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Was talking about Rahane and Pujara
BoyBrumby
Englishman
It's possibly the most unintentionally funny self penned (well, give or take his ghost Steve James...) tome this side of KP's.
In fact, what with James being anything but an idiot, it actually made me wonder if they're really such good mates as all that, because he must've known how Fat Dunc would sound.
Either that or the unwatered version would literally have Fletcher living in a volcano, stroking a white cat muttering "The fool, the paltry fool!" every time a batsman didn't employ his beloved forward fecking press.
OverratedSanity
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Ok, I wasn'tWas talking about Rahane and Pujara
But before the series, Pujara and Kohli were definitely more established than Rahane. They'd played several more series and been successful for almost a whole year. Rahane basically had just 2 series, and those were just 2 games each. So most people didn't put him up there with Pujara and Kohli yet knew he had the potential to be as good.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
I am sorry mate for that was not the intention as you have hinted.
To say It is 'such-and-such' stupid has become a widely used way of saying "why don't you get the obvious you dumbo" as Bill Clinton famously said to Bush, not directly of course. In this case it is supposed to be BCCI saying this to all of us, myself included. maybe I should have put the title in parenthesis an then added . . . says BCCI to all of us but I thought that was obvious.
Just one more thing . . . about this 'gora' business. Again it is said sarcastically and is not aimed at the white man but at senior former cricketers in the subcontinent who have made it their signature. People like Gavaskar, Miandad to name just a few keep mouthing what sounds like 'reverse rascism' particularly in the debates on partiality towards the sub-continentals. It comes up when a 'white' umpire/refree/official/MCC makes a ruling against a South Asian player/team. In the context of the coaching position in both India and Pakistan, so many former players, headed by the two worthies I have named but including the likes of Imran, Wasim, Shastri, Bedi etc have often shown their displeasure at the appointment of foreign coaches. It is amazing but when I was young and playing one often heard of players including the top Indian players bemoaning the fact that we did not have good coaches for the national side and could not afford to hire the top coaches of the world since it was expensive. But the moment BCCI started raking in the big money and the salaries of coaching staff also increased dramatically the issue has become one of a fight against the 'outsiders' who are taking away our highly-paid jobs.
So I have used the term 'gora' here in sarcastic reference to the combination of the propensity of senior Indian and Pakistani cricketers to show their displeasure at the appointment of foreign coaches PLUS the tendency to blame the white man/outsider rather than see the issues at home.
I remember Bishan Bedi used to be so critical of the ruling 'Mehras' of the DDCA (rightly so mind you) and would not loose any opportunity to call them names and how they had ruined the game with their politics and the Mehras got smart idea. They gave the great man a job. I forget now what it was but it was a coaching assignment for one of the teams. The amount was nothing compared to the figures we talk today but it was a very handsome sum in those days. It might have been a great coincidence but somehow one did not hear much of the Mehra and Shahji stuff from the legendary spinner after that.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
The result sheet clearly reads against Fletcher. It's not a new appointment- he's been in charge for three whole years, so that's three years of mediocrity for the Indian Test team.
Let's not blame the players for everything going wrong- in the Dhoni era, player losses have been mounting. Each time a player is lost (dropped), the replacement has not been good enough. Quality in selections has also been compromised, as top Ranji performers are being ignored to favour Club Dhoni, some State teams with powerful lobbies as well as a misconception that only the youngest players are good enough for India.
Ravi Shastri's not really been given a fair try here. He's in as a coach. He's supposed to run the team from the bench, plan things out for them, and keep his best men in form, laying out what's best for them. He's not had that one great Ashes triumph and two Asia series wins like Fletcher, but he'll be better fit for India because he understands the system better. Foreign coaches were needed to bring in modern methods, which have soaked into the dressing-room atmosphere. Moreover, plenty of Indians are doing coaching programmes and have been certified, and a few have had experience either with States or Associate Nations. Let's not rule them out totally.
What India needs, as coach and captain, is someone who's more practical, and can plan and study the scene (and the opponents) before the event, and try a few things out of the box, and even take some bold measures- fair, not questionable ones like the earpiece orders, but at least something like Ian Chappell making his pace bowlers field in slips.
Let's not blame the players for everything going wrong- in the Dhoni era, player losses have been mounting. Each time a player is lost (dropped), the replacement has not been good enough. Quality in selections has also been compromised, as top Ranji performers are being ignored to favour Club Dhoni, some State teams with powerful lobbies as well as a misconception that only the youngest players are good enough for India.
Ravi Shastri's not really been given a fair try here. He's in as a coach. He's supposed to run the team from the bench, plan things out for them, and keep his best men in form, laying out what's best for them. He's not had that one great Ashes triumph and two Asia series wins like Fletcher, but he'll be better fit for India because he understands the system better. Foreign coaches were needed to bring in modern methods, which have soaked into the dressing-room atmosphere. Moreover, plenty of Indians are doing coaching programmes and have been certified, and a few have had experience either with States or Associate Nations. Let's not rule them out totally.
What India needs, as coach and captain, is someone who's more practical, and can plan and study the scene (and the opponents) before the event, and try a few things out of the box, and even take some bold measures- fair, not questionable ones like the earpiece orders, but at least something like Ian Chappell making his pace bowlers field in slips.
