"It's all White here" slogan angers West Indies

[Flem274*]

They didn't even say "Otago cricket likes to mock black people"...the WIPA thought the slogan was insensitive and made their feelings known. Nothing like what you're suggesting.

Its only insensitive if they want to take it that way.

Otherwise I could complain about the name "Black Caps" as it being insensitive and get a name change (I'd suggest "Can't bat's" but thats a new topic..)

Its meant as a play on test cricket, and its only insensitive if the WI want to twist the meaning. Whilst I'd like to see the slogan changed anyway because it plain sucks, I think its a bit OTT to go down the track the WI are suggesting.

Ryder and Taylor don't seem to have any issues with it, unless they think its a corny slogan too.

 

[Jono]

Dasa you know a mate of mine, Chibber.

Awesome.

 

[archie mac]

I have never called you, or implied that you were a racist. Ever. As for knowing history, that's fine and I'm sure you do, but then it seems very hard for me to believe that you wouldn't see the resemblance in the slogan. And for those who don't, I was merely pointing it out.



You said:



You talked about blackwashes, and other terms, and asked if you were missing something. I was simply stating that, in my opinion, you were. And I pointed out historically why I believe those two terms are not comparable. If I missed your point, I apologize, and if you could clarify, I'll reply to that.

No I never said you called me a racist, but you did point out some very obvious historical points

I was just making the point that the words in themselves black and white are used in many different ways, and that the people who came up with the slogan may have honestly felt (and I think that is the case) they were not offending anyone. They may have been naive but that is all. IMO

 

[NZTailender]

Basically what we are trying to say is, we would love to see the day when such things are not easily misinterpreted as being racist, and we all get along with each other. Obviously this day has not come yet.

So would I, but given how long change in regards to racism has taken, this will take a while to achieve.
In an ideal world, the WICB wouldn't have found this offensive. In an ideal world, the history as to why they find it offensive wouldn't have happened

 

[NZTailender]

I was just making the point that the words in themselves black and white are used in many different ways, and that the people who came up with the slogan may have honestly felt (and I think that is the case) they were not offending anyone. They may have been naive but that is all. IMO

Yeah, no one is saying the people who made the slogan did it intentionally, to be racist towards black people or anyone for that matter.
The fact is, the slogan is too ambiguous and has been found to be insensitive.

 

[Polo23]

Ridiculous that anyone can take offense to that. Oh what a PC world we live in.

 

[Bahnz]

The fact is, the slogan is too ambiguous and has been found to be insensitive.

I'm not sure whether insensitive is the right word. I think ****ing ******** is closer to the mark.

 

[Polo23]

I'm not sure whether insensitive is the right word. I think ****ing ******** is closer to the mark.

****ing ******** in what way? It isn't overly witty or clever, but it is in no way offensive.

 

[fredfertang]

With both the nicknames “All Blacks” and “All Whites” having been around for years as well as sporting books titled “Men in Black and “Men in White”, coupled with the clear delineation between the type of cricket played in white as opposed to other coloured clothing I can’t believe that any observer in their right mind, however biased, is seriously going to believe that any offence at all was intended by the Otago association or indeed foreseen.

Reading this thread I think we all agree that it’s not the best of slogans but the readiness of WIPA to express “vehement condemnation” is what I think is sad, and not a little worrying.

Before I go on silentstriker is, of course, absolutely right that 500 years of history can’t be swept away by one generation of change – the 68 year old African American I saw interviewed during the US hustings cannot be expected to change his attitude after being orphaned by the KKK just because Obama has been elected any more than my old neighbour who spent three years on the Burma Railway in WW2 was ever going to react other than with the understandable apoplectic rage that he did when the Japanese premier apologised to him and his comrades for the privations they went through during that time.

Having said that I maintain there is a responsibility on our generations to try and get over this – I would suggest that more than 95% of people today are not racist – the sub5% minority is and has been dwindling but we are on the cusp of a world wide recession – people in difficulty tend to blame their problems on and pick on minorities – xenophobia can quickly take hold – If they have the wit to have spotted it WIPA’s reaction will have brought whoops of delight within the hierarchy of that execrable UK organisation the British National Party and I fear that they and other, worse, organisations are going to pick up support by exploiting these apparent divisions.

When this happens what is needed is for WIPA to have a quiet word, say to Otago “we don’t like it”, and, as they would and have, for Otago to say “whoops sorry lads – didn’t think – withdrawn it now” the alternative that we are witnessing just plays into the hands of the real racists.

 

[Bahnz]

****ing ******** in what way? It isn't overly witty or clever, but it is in no way offensive.

****ing ******** in the sense that during the creative process no one stopped to think, "Ok, a bunch of predominantly black cricketers are coming to tour, from an area of the world with a sad history of slavery and racial segregation. I wonder if its possible that this phrase could be interpreted in any other way..."

 

[Polo23]

Dunno Bahnz, still not seeing any way anyone could take offense to that unless they were specifically looking at trying to take offense (which people obviously were). Hell, people could play the race card over just about anything these days.

 

[Dasa]

Dasa you know a mate of mine, Chibber.

Awesome.

I've heard him mention the name Jono, didn't realise it was you.

Dunno Bahnz, still not seeing any way anyone could take offense to that unless they were specifically looking at trying to take offense (which people obviously were). Hell, people could play the race card over just about anything these days.

I don't get why anyone thinks people would want to take offense.

 

[Jono]

I've heard him mention the name Jono, didn't realise it was you.

Haha awesome.

 

[Athlai]

****ing ******** in the sense that during the creative process no one stopped to think, "Ok, a bunch of predominantly black cricketers are coming to tour, from an area of the world with a sad history of slavery and racial segregation. I wonder if its possible that this phrase could be interpreted in any other way..."

^ Sums it up.

 

[Jono]

Dunno Bahnz, still not seeing any way anyone could take offense to that unless they were specifically looking at trying to take offense (which people obviously were). Hell, people could play the race card over just about anything these days.

****ing ******** in what way? It isn't overly witty or clever, but it is in no way offensive.

Ridiculous that anyone can take offense to that. Oh what a PC world we live in.

Wow, where have I heard that before? Fitting the profile.

 

[BoyBrumby]

**** me, that's a tad harsh. Is this good enough for you? Or this? Why on earth would I make that up?

Its just a phrase, I don't exactly think he was doubting your honesty.

Nah, was suggesting Volty's clearly an untrustworthy colonial sort of a cove.

Seriously tho, yeah, Jono's spot on. I was just crediting Volts for the link between the slogans, as the marketing campaigns of NZ tourist boards are something of a blind spot in my knowledge. I probably sounded more sceptical than was my intention. Or Volts is too touchy. Take your pick...

 

[GIMH]

You said use common sense earlier though.

Common sense to me suggests that "Its all white here" sends connotations of discrimination, and memories of the days when blacks were denied entry or service at various places.

You mean define exactly when a large amount of people would be offended? Listen to them when they say something. Language is not scentific, everything depends on a historical, and cultural context, that's why you can't come up with hard and fast rules.

That's my point though. You can't define it, which is where things can become difficult.

 

[silentstriker]

That's my point though. You can't define it, which is where things can become difficult.

You keep saying that, I am not sure what that means. The two options are: ignoring when something offends a large amount of people, or not. So, you just chalk it up to race card and go down the street yelling racial epithets? I mean come on, yes, there could be gray areas, but that means nothing should ever be offensive? I'm not sure what you mean.

Because whatever the gray areas are, this isn't one of them in regards to offensive slogans.

 

[silentstriker]

No I never said you called me a racist, but you did point out some very obvious historical points

I was just making the point that the words in themselves black and white are used in many different ways, and that the people who came up with the slogan may have honestly felt (and I think that is the case) they were not offending anyone. They may have been naive but that is all. IMO

Except pretty much everyone in this thread has repeated that no one is claiming that they meant to cause offense, or were racists, or anything of the sort. All I'm saying is that despite them not meaning to, the slogan is offensive. That's all.

****ing ******** in the sense that during the creative process no one stopped to think, "Ok, a bunch of predominantly black cricketers are coming to tour, from an area of the world with a sad history of slavery and racial segregation. I wonder if its possible that this phrase could be interpreted in any other way..."

Agreed.

 

[PhoenixFire]

****ing ******** in the sense that during the creative process no one stopped to think, "Ok, a bunch of predominantly black cricketers are coming to tour, from an area of the world with a sad history of slavery and racial segregation. I wonder if its possible that this phrase could be interpreted in any other way..."

AWTA.