Is Warne better than Muralitharan?

[Rik]

ok but think about it this way -

Shane Warne can bowl:
- leg spinner
- googly
- top spinner
- slider
- zooter (has this been banned?)
- flipper

Murali can bowl:
- off spinner
- doosra
- top spinner
- arm ball
- flipper (he is working on this atm apparently)

Warne's zooter is basically his top-spinner. I don't think I've seen him bowl his googly, when he came over to England he just bowled topspinners and varation top-spinners mixed with leggies.

 

[DT8]

have you seen Murali's flipper?

 

[scud101]

I would say they are pretty equal. They are both phenomenal spinners. Murali has a better record than Warne against India. But Murali is only a tad more successful than Warne because of a "deformity". I still think he's a fantastic bowler though. So they're both equally great. 8D

 

[Tom Halsey]

They are both pretty similar abilities, if anything Warne is slightly better.

 

[Armadillo]

halsey you show so much bias towards leggies :duh:

 

[Tom Halsey]

Because I am a leggie?

Besides, not as much bias as you do towards Pakistan.

I geniunly believe Warne is slightly better than Muralitharan.

 

[Armadillo]

i have no bias towards pakistan at all its you who thinks trescothick can bat now thats bias!:O

 

[Tom Halsey]

You think Afridi is good! :O

 

[LankanPrince]

Well that is a good point -- Warne is part of a stronger bowling attack (with Mcgrath and Gillespie). Murali has only the underachieveing Vaas to contend with for wickets.

I still think MUrali is a phenomenal bowler.

Underachieving Vaas? Don' think so maaan! I have a great deal of Admiration for Vaas because he is the guy who usually hits the jackpot when Murali has the occasional bad spell. I believe Vaas is one of the best bowlers in the world when he is on form. He should be given credit as a great bowler in his own right, not just the 'second best' to Murali. There are many occasions when Vaas bowls much more effectively than Murali. He may not have the luck that Murali seems to be gifted with but he bowls long aggresive, testing spells that sometimes go unrewarded. This is why people view him as an underachiever (in terms of the number of wickets he has taken compared to Murali). I do believe Murali is at the moment the best, most tricky bowler in the world . But I give more respect to Vaas because whenever he bowls he always puts 100% effort and is very consistent. He also does not have the uncontrollable temper and anger of likes of Gillepsie who I think is completely overrated.8D

 

[Tom Halsey]

Vaas is one of the best bowlers in the world when he is on form.

Quite a big condition, though. He rarely does bowl well.

 

[Armadillo]

You think Afridi is good! :O

No i dont

 

[LankanPrince]

Quite a big condition, though. He rarely does bowl well.

Rarely bowls well! May I enquire whether you were living in outer space for the past few years? I recall in World Cup 2003, Chaminda Vaas being the second highest wicket taker in the tournament consistently taking wickets of the best batsman. Also not to mention having taken the most number of wickets in an ODI innings ever - 8-19. I figure you are English right? Are u still sore from the number of times Vaas has put England batsman to shame? To pass such a judgement means you are either completely out of touch with the cricketing world, plain ignorant or just anti-Sri Lankan. Take your pick? :O

 

[Neil Pickup]

To pass such a judgement means you are either completely out of touch with the cricketing world, plain ignorant or just anti-Sri Lankan. Take your pick? :O

It's the first two.

Although I'm sure Vaas would like to be a little more consistent himself.

 

[DT8]

I agree Vaas is good. His achievements are especially commendable considering he bowls most of his overs on lifeless lankan wickets which provide no lateral movement or any assisstance to seam bowlers. Also he is ranked 3rd in the world.

 

[Richard]

ok but think about it this way -

Shane Warne can bowl:
- leg spinner
- googly
- top spinner
- slider
- zooter (has this been banned?)
- flipper

Murali can bowl:
- off spinner
- doosra
- top spinner
- arm ball
- flipper (he is working on this atm apparently)

How on Earth can a delivery be banned?
Murali can in fact bowl (all turning a lot):
- off-break-to-right-hander
- leg-break-to-right-hander
- flipper (ie top-spinner; they're the same thing)
All with an action which the batsman can see no difference.
An arm-ball is a fingerspinner's ball.

 

[Richard]

Underachieving Vaas? Don' think so maaan! I have a great deal of Admiration for Vaas because he is the guy who usually hits the jackpot when Murali has the occasional bad spell. I believe Vaas is one of the best bowlers in the world when he is on form. He should be given credit as a great bowler in his own right, not just the 'second best' to Murali. There are many occasions when Vaas bowls much more effectively than Murali. He may not have the luck that Murali seems to be gifted with but he bowls long aggresive, testing spells that sometimes go unrewarded. This is why people view him as an underachiever (in terms of the number of wickets he has taken compared to Murali). I do believe Murali is at the moment the best, most tricky bowler in the world . But I give more respect to Vaas because whenever he bowls he always puts 100% effort and is very consistent. He also does not have the uncontrollable temper and anger of likes of Gillepsie who I think is completely overrated.8D

Quite a big condition, though. He rarely does bowl well.

Rarely bowls well! May I enquire whether you were living in outer space for the past few years? I recall in World Cup 2003, Chaminda Vaas being the second highest wicket taker in the tournament consistently taking wickets of the best batsman. Also not to mention having taken the most number of wickets in an ODI innings ever - 8-19. I figure you are English right? Are u still sore from the number of times Vaas has put England batsman to shame? To pass such a judgement means you are either completely out of touch with the cricketing world, plain ignorant or just anti-Sri Lankan. Take your pick? :O

It's the first two.

Although I'm sure Vaas would like to be a little more consistent himself.

Without a question Chaminda is incredibly inconsisent - I personally have no question in my mind that he is not one of but the best bowler in The World when bowling well.
He can extract lateral movement where most cannot.
However, he has several times gone from a series averaging less than 20 to one averaging over 100. That is terribly inconsistent for a bowler of his ability.
His overall Test average is a huge disappointment. If he bowled like he could more often (no-one is going to be perfect series after series) he'd average much closer to 25 than the 30 he presently does.
However, the assertion that "he rarely bowls well" is grossly wrong. It's about 50\50. Either magnificent or absolutely horrible.
He has put England to shame twice in Sri Lanka, and for some reason has bowled totally differently when he toured England in 2002. The conditions were Sri Lankan; he bowled as if they were English. That was the only explanation I could come-up with.

 

[Tom Halsey]

flipper (ie top-spinner; they're the same thing)

A flipper is a backspinner which is quick through the air, and usually short. Therefore I you are a leggie (like me) the idea is the batsmen expects it to turn, and goes to cut. However, it skids straight on under the bat, and bowls him. A top spinner is a top spinner. That's why they are called seperate things.

 

[DT8]

a flipper skids whereas a top spinner bounces more, right?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Correct.

 

[Richard]

A flipper is a backspinner which is quick through the air, and usually short. Therefore I you are a leggie (like me) the idea is the batsmen expects it to turn, and goes to cut. However, it skids straight on under the bat, and bowls him. A top spinner is a top spinner. That's why they are called seperate things.

Surely the point of any variation is the batsman expects it to be the stock-ball?
Why, then, is it called a "flipper" if what it does, in fact, is the opposite to flip (given that "flip" means basically to jump up)?