Is Steyn as deadly as Lillee?

[Teja.]

Don't forget the spell he bowled at the Centurion first day as well. While Morkel deservedly took the plaudits with 5/20, Steyn got Laxman bowled and Tendulkar LBW with magnificent deliveries that would have got anyone. The one to Tendulkar was shaping to go away and then seamed in sharply. If he had bowled one of those at Cape Town amidst all those banana outswingers, he might well have got his man again.

Being so good on the flattie in the second Innings as well. 4-fer IIRC. So much respect. WAFG.

 

[abmk]

Don't forget the spell he bowled at the Centurion first day as well. While Morkel deservedly took the plaudits with 5/20, Steyn got Laxman bowled and Tendulkar LBW with magnificent deliveries that would have got anyone. The one to Tendulkar was shaping to go away and then seamed in sharply. If he had bowled one of those at Cape Town amidst all those banana outswingers, he might well have got his man again.

I think his spell towards the end of the 4th day was better. He got dhoni out with a snorter, was steaming in and even sachin who was well-settled found it a bit difficult to handle the heat.

the sachin LBW one was straight-forward from what I remember

 

[abmk]

Steyn still has to show some more longevity to be up with Lillee IMO.

While Lillee was an ATG fast bowler, I find him a bit over-rated. For instance, the tag of him being the gold standard of fast bowling attributed to him. Macko was a more complete bowler and did well everywhere under all sort of conditions and deserves the tag IMO.

 

[abmk]

From what I saw of Steyn in the recent test, a majority of his bowling was mid 130km's, whats up with that? Hardly quick stuff. I thought he was consistently above 140+?

he slowed down deliberately to get more movement. He was bowling quick in some spells in the series and slower in the others

 

[Hit Wicket]

Don't Worry. You'll learn with time that it's blasphemy to criticize Lillee, Warne or Pointing. But bear in mind that it's only the Tendulkar fans who are hyper sensitive.

I've already realized it. No one on the board saw anything wrong with Steyn not having enough competition on the flattest decks of decades but started jumping all around when Lillee's incomplete test record was brought forth as a counter. What is Steyn expected to do - hold training camps in countries so he can get competition?

 

[Migara]

Don't Worry. You'll learn with time that it's blasphemy to criticize Lillee, Warne or Pointing. But bear in mind that it's only the Tendulkar fans who are hyper sensitive.

Oh, add Bevan too.

 

[Shri]

Yeah Bevan was a great fast bowler in tests. Oh wait...

 

[tooextracool]

Not to mention, reckon the flat pitches argument is being way over-played. Last 5 years we've seen some pretty spicy decks.

I agree with this. Since 2007 we've seen some seriously competitive bowling conditions, especially in South Africa, England and even Australia. Dont think the flat track stuff is relevant for Steyn, certainly not as it was for McGrath.

 

[Top_Cat]

NZ too?

 

[kingkallis]

From what I saw of Steyn in the recent test, a majority of his bowling was mid 130km's, whats up with that? Hardly quick stuff. I thought he was consistently above 140+?

He was in mid 130's in last test match in the absence of Kallis. Looks like he was trying to preserve his energy as he knew he wouldnt get enough rest.

 

[tooextracool]

NZ too?

NZ has always had green tops though. Certainly between 2002 and 2006 there were some ridiculously flat English and Australian decks and that has changed significantly over the past 4 years or so.

 

[Burgey]

I've already realized it. No one on the board saw anything wrong with Steyn not having enough competition on the flattest decks of decades but started jumping all around when Lillee's incomplete test record was brought forth as a counter. What is Steyn expected to do - hold training camps in countries so he can get competition?

Well it seems some are disputing whether the decks are as flat as they were a few years back. Personally haven't given it that much thought.

Lillee's "incomplete" test record is an accident of history though. It's not his fault Australia hardly toured the subcontinent when he was in his pomp, just as it isn't the fault of players of his era that they missed tours to stay home and work. It was the reality of that time.

He played 4 tests in the subcontinent at the fag end of his career. If Morocco came into test cricket at the end of Lara or Tendulkar's careers, they played 3 or 4 matches there and under-performed, you're telling me that sullies their records? Like fun. It's like saying Cowdrey couldn't play pace because he didn't do well here in 74-75 when he was ancient.

Give us a break, please.

 

[abmk]

Well it seems some are disputing whether the decks are as flat as they were a few years back. Personally haven't given it that much thought.

Lillee's "incomplete" test record is an accident of history though. It's not his fault Australia hardly toured the subcontinent when he was in his pomp, just as it isn't the fault of players of his era that they missed tours to stay home and work. It was the reality of that time.

He played 4 tests in the subcontinent at the fag end of his career. If Morocco came into test cricket at the end of Lara or Tendulkar's careers, they played 3 or 4 matches there and under-performed, you're telling me that sullies their records? Like fun. It's like saying Cowdrey couldn't play pace because he didn't do well here in 74-75 when he was ancient.

Give us a break, please.

LOL ! another of those excuses for Lillee. He played 29 matches after that series in Pak. 29 matches out of a total of 70 .

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

The series was in 1980 and he retired in 1984. That is NOT the fag end of his career by any means !

His average after those tests was actually very slightly lesser than his overall average

 

[Teja.]

Well it seems some are disputing whether the decks are as flat as they were a few years back. Personally haven't given it that much thought.

Lillee's "incomplete" test record is an accident of history though. It's not his fault Australia hardly toured the subcontinent when he was in his pomp, just as it isn't the fault of players of his era that they missed tours to stay home and work. It was the reality of that time.

He played 4 tests in the subcontinent at the fag end of his career. If Morocco came into test cricket at the end of Lara or Tendulkar's careers, they played 3 or 4 matches there and under-performed, you're telling me that sullies their records? Like fun. It's like saying Cowdrey couldn't play pace because he didn't do well here in 74-75 when he was ancient.

Give us a break, please.

Yeah, It's like saying Steyn can't bowl on flat-tracks at all because of his two failures in the UAE, when he was rusty and injured. It's completely ridiculous.

 

[abmk]

Another point to add though. Lillee did very well in the WSC tests in WI. Those tests were highly competitive and its sad that those tests are not official .The only official test he played there, he was injured.

 

[Hit Wicket]

Well it seems some are disputing whether the decks are as flat as they were a few years back. Personally haven't given it that much thought.

Lillee's "incomplete" test record is an accident of history though. It's not his fault Australia hardly toured the subcontinent when he was in his pomp, just as it isn't the fault of players of his era that they missed tours to stay home and work. It was the reality of that time.

He played 4 tests in the subcontinent at the fag end of his career. If Morocco came into test cricket at the end of Lara or Tendulkar's careers, they played 3 or 4 matches there and under-performed, you're telling me that sullies their records? Like fun. It's like saying Cowdrey couldn't play pace because he didn't do well here in 74-75 when he was ancient.

Give us a break, please.

Lillee did not play in the subcontinent because he chose not to - he preferred playing for Packer. And he played the series in Pakistan in 1980, hardly at the end of his career. He also played a test in WI in 1972 - but I guess that was too early for the strapping lad?

I agree the sample is not large enough but don't give lame excuses like above. But more importantly why have you not said a single word in defense of Steyn's supposed lack of competition which is clearly beyond his control?

 

[abmk]

Yeah, It's like saying Steyn can't bowl on flat-tracks at all because of his two failures in the UAE, when he was rusty and injured. It's completely ridiculous.

actually steyn was rusty and not fully fit. Nothing like that for Lillee in that Pak tour. Read my post regarding that series in Pak as well.

Besides there is a difference between averaging 46 in a 2 test series to averaging 100+ in a 3 test series

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, It's like saying Steyn can't bowl on flat-tracks at all because of his two failures in the UAE, when he was rusty and injured. It's completely ridiculous.

Indeed it is. Mind you has anyone said that?

 

[Teja.]

Indeed it is. Mind you has anyone said that?

Noone has, just using a modern example of how great bowlers failing in one series cannot be held against them to such an extent.

 

[Burgey]

Lillee did not play in the subcontinent because he chose not to - he preferred playing for Packer. And he played the series in Pakistan in 1980, hardly at the end of his career. He also played a test in WI in 1972 - but I guess that was too early for the strapping lad?

I agree the sample is not large enough but don't give lame excuses like above. But more importantly why have you not said a single word in defense of Steyn's supposed lack of competition which is clearly beyond his control?

Because I think you're confusing me with someone else. I said he has the form and attributes to be a great. I even defended him when someone said his pace was down in the last series.