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Is Ravindra Jadeja an ATG test bowler?
- Thread starter Shri
- Start date
TheJediBrah
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That's another factor to take into account. Not playing every away game should help the stats because he's getting picked when conditions suit spin the most on these tours, and being left out when they don't. Theoretically at least.
Himannv
Hall of Fame Member
Alright. He's already the best Indian cricketer of all time. Statistically getting close to Bradman now.
Hmmm
That would be Ashwin.
Burgey
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In the sense that every day brings him closer to death, then sure
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Comeon, we all know Bradman would had been Jadeja's bunny.....
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Murali and Warne aren't Bradman. But they were worldclass in most countries which is what you should be if you want to be called an ATG.
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
They were both Bradmanesque when it comes to spin.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
No. Bradman was literally twice the value of a world-class bat. Warne Murali aren't that great.
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Wally Hammond played 8 tests after WWII in 1946-1947 at age 43-44. He obviously struggled.
Remove those tests and his stats become-
77 tests, 6883 runs, @ 61.45 average
So Bradman (52 tests) performed about 1.5 times better than Hammond. And the gap would only be narrower in modern cricket.
Coronis
International Coach
Murali and Warne are still not 1.5x better than other spinners imo.
Socerer 01
International Captain
sure this would be the case if he was like Maharaj or for a more extreme eg, Ajaz Patel who dont play when the pitch is a spin graveyard as their sides pick other pacers instead. but that isnt the case for Jadeja, he didnt play every away match because Ashwin was a thing. he was picked in those away matches not because the pitch was turning a mile but because Ashwin was unavailable. idk what it is about Jadeja that makes so many people speculate and make assumptions. if anything him not being a regular pick on sena tours and still having an okay record with sporadic match time makes him better, look at how many times kiwibros say Patel has been hard done by him only being picked in Asia. is it a coincidence that the best sena spinner of this gen and the one some here consider to be the best spinner of this gen is the dude that gets to play nearly every test when fit and available?
@Majestic also fell into the checklist analysis trap, if he had actually bothered to watch that England series he would have known how poor conditions were for spinners in general in that series. Moeen Ali who rolled us over in a test in 2018 was a non factor in that series against our batting lineup that was worse against spin at that point compared to 2018. this **** is why i hate the new checklist analysis trope that this forum has borrowed from reddit, you need to contextualise those stats and its never done every time these discussions pop up even if we have many people who watched these series unlike the 1950 and 1960 era dick measuring contests. @Spark was right, 3 years down the line this forum will start talking about how Rabada had a great series down under last time like the redditors do now and argue that “well he was the one who took those wickets” if you point out how poor he truly was
does this mean Jadeja is an atg test bowler like the title claims? no if your criteria is that the only ones who are atg spinners are Warne, Murali give or take Tiger. some have a more inclusionary criteria that has merits for Jadeja but in every thread there’s a weird opposition to this that i cant wrap my head around on how atg lists should be an objective thing and not the subjective dick swinging contests that they really are
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
I distinctly recall Rabada not bowling well in Australia but now in this thread or one of the other threads I am hearing he was great in Australia ..... as people are purely looking at stats... its actually getting ridiculous. Everything is not stats.
Bowling is not an independent thing. You may have been the best bowler and ended up with 1/60 or 2/70. Another bowler such as Rabada may have bowled filth and got 5/60.
Sometimes Srinath would do a lot of the work and Venky Prasad would get all the wickets despite not bowling well. Some other times batsmen would just gift their wickets to Prasad.
So bowling stats can be very misleading, particularly those that reflect just a handful of games (avg in particular series or avg in a particular country).
Therefore Rabada IMO is not even close to being ATG. You watch him bowl and stop reading figures off spreadsheets.
Bowling is not an independent thing. You may have been the best bowler and ended up with 1/60 or 2/70. Another bowler such as Rabada may have bowled filth and got 5/60.
Sometimes Srinath would do a lot of the work and Venky Prasad would get all the wickets despite not bowling well. Some other times batsmen would just gift their wickets to Prasad.
So bowling stats can be very misleading, particularly those that reflect just a handful of games (avg in particular series or avg in a particular country).
Therefore Rabada IMO is not even close to being ATG. You watch him bowl and stop reading figures off spreadsheets.
For someone who relies on accuracy with bowl mostly,
Comparing Jadeja with Moeen won't really help us arrive any conclusion. Moeen is bits and pieces and there is no debate there, Jadeja is far ahead as a spinner but that series remains poor for him. I think barring that third test when England seamers got the better of Indian batting, there was decent bit for spinners to atleast end with say, 10 wickets over 4 tests. As I said, he is a bit condition dependent like most spinners are. Nevertheless, he is certainly a world class spinner but won't really put him as ATG bowler.
ATG all rounder? Think he needs a bit more sample away from home for that.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I don't see how someone can say 'let's contextualise' and then judge a spinner an ATG based on 'okay' away performances.
Common thread for supporters of certain players is to downgrade previously understood criteria for greatness. Back in the day we expected spinners to actually win games to show their chops.