Is Ravindra Jadeja an ATG test bowler?

[Xix2565]

Spinners actually got proper pitches to win games on if you're referring to the older hacks pre Warne/Murali.

 

[Socerer 01]

I don't see how someone can say 'let's contextualise' and then judge a spinner an ATG based on 'okay' away performances.

Common thread for supporters of certain players is to downgrade previously understood criteria for greatness. Back in the day we expected spinners to actually win games to show their chops.

its clear and obvious that you havent read my post properly or you have and you’re deliberately missing the point as always to continue strawmanning

 

[subshakerz]

its clear and obvious that you havent read my post properly or you have and you’re deliberately missing the point as always to continue strawmanning

The gist is Jadeja's performances meet a standard of 'okay' and let's be more inclusive for ATGs. Not much to read between the lines.

 

[honestbharani]

The gist is you just cant stomach Indian cricket and cricketers' success. Move on.

 

[subshakerz]

The gist is you just cant stomach Indian cricket and cricketers' success. Move on.

You really dont have much of substance to add, so you?

 

[Socerer 01]

You really dont have much of substance to add, so you?

 

[subshakerz]

On the contrary, even if you dislike my opinions, I take the time to articulate them so you can understand and engage with the other side.

 

[ma1978]

On the contrary, even if you dislike my opinions, I take the time to articulate them so you can understand and engage with the other side.

you don't have opinions, you have polemics and twist and manipulate data to supp;ort your polemics

 

[honestbharani]

Articulate - "I hate Indian cricket and cricketers aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh"

 

[Socerer 01]

there's an interesting debate to be had if Jadeja is the greatest spin allrounder in test history, someone should start a thread on that

 

[ma1978]

there's an interesting debate to be had if Jadeja is the greatest spin allrounder in test history, someone should start a thread on that

assuming you don;t consider Ashwin an AR, and I don't think he is, I'm not sure this is debatable. He's better than Shakib and it was a long time ago when Aubrey Faulkner played

 

[capt_Luffy]

assuming you don;t consider Ashwin an AR, and I don't think he is, I'm not sure this is debatable. He's better than Shakib and it was a long time ago when Aubrey Faulkner played

Shakib
Faulkner
Rhodes
These 3 have genuine cases ahead of Jadeja.

 

[Socerer 01]

Shakib
Faulkner
Rhodes
These 3 have genuine cases ahead of Jadeja.

Faulkner's sample size is tiny

Bumrah's bowled more overs than him and played more tests and so many people here think he doesn't belong in any atg convo until he plays more tests

 

[capt_Luffy]

Faulkner's sample size is tiny

Bumrah's bowled more overs than him and played more tests and so many people here think he doesn't belong in any atg convo until he plays more tests

Vastly different Eras; he played more matches than G Pollock and Headley; and around the same as O'Reilly.

 

[Socerer 01]

Vastly different Eras; he played more matches than G Pollock and Headley; and around the same as O'Reilly.

Rhodes played a lot more for eg, he’s a worthy contender compared to Faulkner as good as he was

its the same as saying Barry Richards and Mike Procter were ATGs, to me they are but half of this forum will rise up with their pitchforks if you say that because their test careers were so short

 

[capt_Luffy]

Rhodes played a lot more for eg, he’s a worthy contender compared to Faulkner as good as he was

its the same as saying Barry Richards and Mike Procter were ATGs, to me they are but half of this forum will rise up with their pitchforks if you say that because their test careers were so short

They're ATG cricketers for me too. ATG Test cricketers? Probably not. But Faulkner has played more than Pollock and Headley and around the same as Bill O'Reilly; most considers those 3 ATGs.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I distinctly recall Rabada not bowling well in Australia but now in this thread or one of the other threads I am hearing he was great in Australia ..... as people are purely looking at stats... its actually getting ridiculous. Everything is not stats.

Bowling is not an independent thing. You may have been the best bowler and ended up with 1/60 or 2/70. Another bowler such as Rabada may have bowled filth and got 5/60.

Sometimes Srinath would do a lot of the work and Venky Prasad would get all the wickets despite not bowling well. Some other times batsmen would just gift their wickets to Prasad.

So bowling stats can be very misleading, particularly those that reflect just a handful of games (avg in particular series or avg in a particular country).

Therefore Rabada IMO is not even close to being ATG. You watch him bowl and stop reading figures off spreadsheets.

aka Samplesizelol

 

[Ashwinashwath]

The thing with Jadeja is he keeps bowling in one ark all day long and can get the batsmen bogged down resulting in an unforced error. Daniel Vettori was a similar kind of bowler. Lyon also is that kind of nagging bowler very different from those who try different variations.

 

[Coronis]

They're ATG cricketers for me too. ATG Test cricketers? Probably not. But Faulkner has played more than Pollock and Headley and around the same as Bill O'Reilly; most considers those 3 ATGs.

Just a funny thought - people would exclude a bad record in a country if they played four matches saying samplesizelol, but will say that one series makes Richards a test ATG lol

(not necessarily you just an amusing observation in general)

 

[capt_Luffy]

Just a funny thought - people would exclude a bad record in a country if they played four matches saying samplesizelol, but will say that one series makes Richards a test ATG lol

(not necessarily you just an amusing observation in general)

If Richards is an ATG based on that series, then so is Yashasvi Jaiswal. But we both know that people don't rate him based on only of those 4 games.