Is it Really That hard to become a international cricketer?

[Barney Rubble]

I've played against junior county level players, and whilst they are undeniably very talented, I wouldn't say the level of talent required is quite as astronomically high as some have been suggesting. I think it's more a mental thing than anything else.

Being a success from junior level onwards is not just about having talent, but about being willing to listen to those who know better than you how to harness that talent and turn it into performances.

As Neil said, selectors at junior level won't just look at averages when they select a squad - indeed, they might not look at them at all. You can never really know what standard of bowling a player has faced in his career, anyway - equally, a player with a massive amount of talent and a high average might not have the mental capacity to play at a higher level. Graeme Hick's the classic example of a guy without the capacity to learn and adapt his game - Marcus Trescothick is a classic example of someone with that capacity.

 

[silentstriker]

When I was seven (or eight), I once played against Irfan Pathan. It was a simple community vs. community match, and even at that age, he could play. It was with a tennis ball on grass, but he was so far ahead of everyone else around, it wasn't even remotely funny. I think his brother was there too, and he was just as good.

Actually, I had forgotten I played against him until someone from back home emailed me when Pathan made his debut. I probably lived around a mile or so from his house back then.

Remember, we were like seven years old and you could just tell that he was special.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I think I remember SJS saying a while ago that he saw a very, very young Sachin Tendulkar batting in the nets at Mumbai once - perhaps if he's reading this he'd be so kind as to tell us exactly how good the great man was at such a young age.

 

[Kweek]

dude..i have taken 5- 3 wickets hauls....nothing special i have taken 1 5 wicket hauls...am im gonna make it in the dutch side ? No way...will i make it in a Dutch junior side..dont think so(hoping is not bad) best i can get and what my target is, is 1st team(highest class) but im not even sure about that.!

how to change your life in 1 year :P
I made it in a dutch development team, and im playing pre-season friendlies with the 1st team

 

[Goughy]

A point about 115 kph.

There is an easy way to tell if a guy or girl is bowling quicker or below 115.

115 is about 70 mph. A guy about 6ft (183cm) delivering the ball below 70 mph and landing the ball on a good length has the ball released fractionally upwards from the hand. The ball has a tiny (must watch closely) arch on it.

Above 70 mph the ball leaves the hand going downwards.

Something you can check for at your net sessions to get a rough idea of a guys pace.

 

[Zinzan]

Lol.. he is decent some of the time.

Interesting that Andrew Mehrtens (NZ's greatest ever first five eight IMO) was kept out of his schools rugby first 15 by Geoff Allot the former NZ cricketer

Wasn't it Chris Cairns ??

Just winding u up blaze

 

[open365]

I think I remember SJS saying a while ago that he saw a very, very young Sachin Tendulkar batting in the nets at Mumbai once - perhaps if he's reading this he'd be so kind as to tell us exactly how good the great man was at such a young age.

SJS was 30-something at the time i believe

 

[Barney Rubble]

A point about 115 kph.

There is an easy way to tell if a guy or girl is bowling quicker or below 115.

115 is about 70 mph. A guy about 6ft (183cm) delivering the ball below 70 mph and landing the ball on a good length has the ball released fractionally upwards from the hand. The ball has a tiny (must watch closely) arch on it.

Above 70 mph the ball leaves the hand going downwards.

Something you can check for at your net sessions to get a rough idea of a guys pace.

Sounds very interesting - but surely it's extremely difficult to actually tell whether there is an arc or not? Still, I'll give it a try.

 

[Tom Halsey]

great job mate proving pickup wrong once again

Ah Bob.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I play for Hornchurch, you heard of them?

I know you're probably not posting on CW any more, but I dislike Hornchurch (though I've probably picked up a false impression).

The thing is, on the Essex CCC message board, we have our own version of trolls, and whenever anyone says anything remotely derogatory about Hornchurch, they usually come back with the wonderfully well thought-out argument of "you're an idiot".

As I say, probably a false impression.

 

[Tom Halsey]

his record score was 150* from 40 overs against a v.good side, yet he couldn't make it even into the age group sides.

One of our players made 256* from 40 overs in a Matchplay game last year.

 

[luckyeddie]

I played with John Birch and against Clive Inman.

Both could be realistically described as 'journeymen' but in reality were far, far better cricketers than I could ever dream of being.

That wouldn't prevent some of our 'enlightened' members describing them as 'rubbish' though.

 

[Goughy]

Sounds very interesting - but surely it's extremely difficult to actually tell whether there is an arc or not? Still, I'll give it a try.

Easiest thing is watch the ball from the hand. If the ball comes out fractionally upwards then its below 115 (70). Its not that hard to spot. Have a look at the arm as well. If the ball is released before the perpendicular (sp?) then it is below 115.

 

[thierry henry]

Shane Warne's average ball is at a pace we'd have considered a quickish medium.

I see the point you're trying to make, but this is complete rubbish isn't it?

I played cricket for the local teams etc from the ages of about 7-17 and while I always regarded myself as a handy bowler I was basically just a dibbly-dobbly medium-pacer. Basically I was of a standard where I would be the 4th or 5th bowler called upon for my under-18 club team- and while we played competitively in the A-grade competition, we were actually ostensibly the B team from my club. Furthermore, the Auckland under-18 competition didn't even include players from the top 2 grades of first XI schools cricket, as they played afternoons as well.

I'm 21 now and haven't played cricket since school. I still play social grade indoor cricket weekly where I run in off 4 paces as fast as I can and consider myself to be brisk medium pace in comparison to the general standard- but this is SOCIAL cricket featuring probably 60% guys who are simply not cricketers.

I've always assumed that I bowled around 100-110kph, and my (admittedly dubious) testing with the Platypus speedballs proves this. When I dropped a bit short, I was 120, but when I hit the correct length and got an accurate reading, I was constantly just over 100.

Shane Warne tends to bowl about 80-85kph. I would regard this as a very, very slow-medium pace even for a social grade hacker. It might seem quicker because of the other difficulties you would have to consider when facing Warne, but it isn't.

I disagree that club opening bowlers would bowl around 115kph. The Auckland first-grade comp is full of guys who have played for Auckland and New Zealand. I reckon that most first-grade club seamers would be around 125kph. It is not pace that sets the club bowlers apart from the first-class bowlers and the first-class bowlers apart from the international bowlers.

Furthermore, we have a New Zealand under-19 left arm spinner (Roneel Hira- he performed very well with the ball at the world cup) who sometimes plays for our indoor team. He is obviously a first-grade/international under-19/almost first class standard spinner, and he doesn't bowl his spinners any faster than any club/social spinner.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yeah, I would also dispute some of the claims made here about speed.

Take Ricky Ponting for example. Ponting is by no means a particularly special bowler, and I'd say it's fair to assume that he bowls quite infrequently in the nets or in any form of competitive cricket. Nevertheless, he manages to bowl around about 125+ kph when he grabs the ball in a test match. I find it hard to believe that your average grade cricket seamer is significantly slower than Ricky Ponting.

 

[thierry henry]

Also, when bowling to a first-class standard batsman, obviously they have an extremely high level of hand-eye coordination that makes them able to play outrageous shots. However, it really depends on the situation. It's easy enough to play a barrage of big shots in the nets, but there are different pressures in a game situation. I recall well when we played a Gillette Cup game (people who have played at high school in NZ will know what this is) and the opposition had a Northern Districts under-19 rep. He scratched around for an over or two, then eventually went for one big drive against one of our straight up and down slow medium-pacers, it stayed a little lower than expected and bowled him. I'm sure he could've put on a real clinic for us in the nets, but you don't get those chances in a game situation.

It doesn't matter who the batsman is, no-one can hit a yorker for 6. And in a normal game situation, if you bowl intelligently and accurately and don't get intimidated, you might be able to tie down a really talented player for at least a little while.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm just a run of the mill backyard cricketer, but like a lot of people I've had some experiences against NZ age-group reps, club first-graders, Auckland B players, fringe first-class players etc. They are not superhuman, and a clear head and a confident attitude helps when playing against them. I don't agree that an outrageous level of talent is needed to play first-class cricket. I'm sure there have been some FC and international cricketers who always felt inferior to their teammates, but made up for it with a lot of practice, fierce determination, and an intelligent understanding of the game.

Interesting- Andre Adams (like Chris Martin mentioned earlier in the thread) never made his high school first XI. Although this strikes me as very odd, because Adams seems to be a very natural athlete and talent. Nevertheless, cricket is actually rather an "unnatural" skill set. Therefore, it's quite possible that no talent at all will be revealed until a player has proper coaching etc.

Also, I played in under 15s with a kid who was a useful wicket-keeper batsman, but probably at about my skill level as a cricketer overall. Only 5 years later he was in the Auckland under-19s as a specialist opening bat who made centuries against other provinces. There was certainly nothing freakish or otherworldly about his batting talent but he isn't that far away from first class cricket.

 

[thierry henry]

And another example- Reece Young is keeper/batsman for the Auckland Aces, a fixture in the side. I saw him playing indoor cricket in my grade a few times and he didn't even look that flash with the bat. Infact I can think of 2 or 3 regulars there who would out-perform him. Reece has a first-class century (or maybe more than 1?).

A LOT comes down to temperament in match situations. Some players hit every ball for 6 when they play club hackers, and then can't buy a run against first-grade players. Others (perhaps a slow-scoring, compact batsman) grind out a slow 40 against club hackers, and then grind out a slow 40 against first-grade players.

Some of the most talented cricketers I have ever seen in my life have achieved less than guys who were relatively mediocre when I played with them. Infact I can think of a clear case where I played with a set of brothers. One I still consider to be one of the best players I have ever played with, the other, when I was a kid, I considered myself better than. If anything, the latter has gone further with the game.

Sorry to go on and on about this but I find it a very interesting subject. I think the difference between backyard cricket and international cricket can be overstated sometimes. You don't necessarily need to make a smooth progression through the ranks. There is a large element of uncertainty and good fortune involved, and you can achieve a lot through your own initiative and desire as well.

 

[Goughy]

Thierry,

Good posts and I agree with a lot of what you said.

I have always believed that highlevel batsmen still have to respect good bowling and that the measure of a guys quality is not how he starts but how he bats going from 50-100. That is where real class tells. They work their way into good situations and then capitalize.

Quality batsmen posses good judgement and shot selection rather than freakish ability.

My only game this season (played as a batsman only due to injury) was a pretty low level game against an Aussie team under lights. I hit 75+no off about 30odd balls and everyone thought I was a great batsman who was close to the pros. I am in fact a bowler.

I bat 8,9,10,11 at a higher level because I do not have the temperament or the technique to deal with quality bowling.

I (along with many others) can play all the shots in the nets and at a lower level but batting at a higher level is far more about the mental aspects and discipline.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I see the point you're trying to make, but this is complete rubbish isn't it?

I played cricket for the local teams etc from the ages of about 7-17 and while I always regarded myself as a handy bowler I was basically just a dibbly-dobbly medium-pacer. Basically I was of a standard where I would be the 4th or 5th bowler called upon for my under-18 club team- and while we played competitively in the A-grade competition, we were actually ostensibly the B team from my club. Furthermore, the Auckland under-18 competition didn't even include players from the top 2 grades of first XI schools cricket, as they played afternoons as well.

I'm 21 now and haven't played cricket since school. I still play social grade indoor cricket weekly where I run in off 4 paces as fast as I can and consider myself to be brisk medium pace in comparison to the general standard- but this is SOCIAL cricket featuring probably 60% guys who are simply not cricketers.

I've always assumed that I bowled around 100-110kph, and my (admittedly dubious) testing with the Platypus speedballs proves this. When I dropped a bit short, I was 120, but when I hit the correct length and got an accurate reading, I was constantly just over 100.

Shane Warne tends to bowl about 80-85kph. I would regard this as a very, very slow-medium pace even for a social grade hacker. It might seem quicker because of the other difficulties you would have to consider when facing Warne, but it isn't.

I disagree that club opening bowlers would bowl around 115kph. The Auckland first-grade comp is full of guys who have played for Auckland and New Zealand. I reckon that most first-grade club seamers would be around 125kph. It is not pace that sets the club bowlers apart from the first-class bowlers and the first-class bowlers apart from the international bowlers.
Furthermore, we have a New Zealand under-19 left arm spinner (Roneel Hira- he performed very well with the ball at the world cup) who sometimes plays for our indoor team. He is obviously a first-grade/international under-19/almost first class standard spinner, and he doesn't bowl his spinners any faster than any club/social spinner.

Yeah, I agree with you there. I play a bit of First Grade around our area and we played a First Class team from our state. The main difference I noticed as far as the bowlers went was general control and control of movement was better in the first class guys.

As far as the batsmen went, there was a huge difference between the two levels (we're not First Grade in a capital city so the drop off is quite steep). The guys we were bowling to had so much time it was ridiculous...they made you look like you were bowling slow medium with a tennis ball, haha. Mind you, a couple of them had played for Australia so...I doubt we were the most fearsome thing they'd seen standing at the top of our marks. I think we beat the bat 10 times in 50 overs. They're timing is pretty impressive too, a simple defensive shot arrived at mid on/off at a fair pace.

I think you'd find that a step up in class, from whatever level to the next, will often test out a batsman's technique if he's not up to the task as the game is generally of at least a slightly quicker pace. I've played 3rd grade and scored a hundred with the bat, yet first grade generally sees me at 11...greater control and movement (and to a lesser extend pace) at each level generally sorts out poor techniques.

 

[Langeveldt]

I play for Taunton Cricket Club now, we have a guy who has just spent a winter in Australia playing grade cricket.. He isn't a pro, but he is on the rung down, the type of person that if they can afford to, can get a game with a grade 1 side in Perth..

The difference between him and us good club cricketers is vast, I can get into line, play straight, see the ball, and it catches the edge of my bat, or if he wants to, he can get me out LBW, even if I could tell what he was trying to do, there is sod all I could do about it.. I'd do sod all in Aussie grade cricket, I might keep it tight with the ball for a few overs but thats about it, no wonder people travel halfway around the world for it

Just makes me appreciate the difference between club and first class and test cricket really..