Is Harbhajan Singh one of the greatest fingerspinners ever ?

[silentstriker]

Well, certainly to use the terms 'finger' or 'wrist' to describe the direction of the stock ball is surely worse? Obviously offie and leggie would be better, but I'd say Murali has more in common with a Warne or Kumble than he does with a Harbhajan in terms of his action.

 

[Richard]

Take issue with this designation of Murali as a wrist-spinner. If you take the level of wrist involvement in spinning as the deciding factor, then every spinner is a wrirst spinner. If you're an offie or left-arm orthodox and you don't learn how to use your wrirst, you won't take many wickets at any level. Similarly, if you're a leggie who doesn't use his fingers properly (e.g. third finger on your spinning hand).

The distinction is as rubbery as Murali's wrirst itself. And, ultimately, pointless.

Of course it's ultimately pointless, and at the end of the day the only real absolute definitions that can be made are between spin and seam and right-arm\left-arm.

Obviously all bowlers, seam or spin, use the fingers - you need them to grip the ball at all, and as a spinner you need them to spin and\or exacerbate spin. Obviously the wrist has a part to play in both orthodox fingerspin and orthodox wristspin. Murali ultimately is a unique bowler who there'll probably never be another like, but if he has to be classed as fingerspinner or wristspinner then calling him fingerspinner makes a hell of a lot less sense than calling him wristspinner. If you don't like either then just calling him "spinner like no other" is perfectly fair enough, but it's a bit of a mouthful.

 

[Craig]

Harbhajan for some strange reason had a bad time in SL, while fellow finger spinners like Vettori enjoyed success. May be SL wickets are very different to Indian ones despite being spin friendly. Similarly Kumble had a very difficult time in SL while Warne and Mushtaq did well. possibly in SL you need to flight the ball a lot to get success.

Yeah Vettori's record against Sri Lanka, especially in Sri Lanka with the ball is awesome.

 

[bagapath]

mmm lets see... rhodes, verity, laker, tayfield, bedi, prasanna, saqlain

I dont like bhajji much but looks like it would be difficult to leave him out of the top 15 finger spinners of all time... so i guess he is one of the greatest finger spinners ever whether i like it or not

 

[Richard]

mmm lets see... rhodes, verity, laker, tayfield

Just so pointless to compare him to them. They had uncovered wickets, Harbhajan has not, and if roles were reversed we'd have no clue and I mean no clue whatsoever how they'd go.

 

[Matt79]

He would have to be one of the very best in modern (say, post 1970) times. Guys who would be contenders for the all-time distinction, such as Laker, tended to be much earlier in the piece. Given the advances for batsmen that have made spin bowling harder to be successful, I'd say he deserves the comparison to members of the famed spin quartet.

Obviously not a patch on Hauritz however.

 

[Jono]

Bhajji's and Hauritz's batting makes them awesome

 

[GIMH]

Bhajji's and Hauritz's batting makes them awesome

Right on cue for me to award Swanneh the prize and close the thread tbh

 

[Matt79]

hmmm, someone should make a thread about who out of Swann and Hauritz is the better bowler...

 

[honestbharani]

Right on cue for me to award Swanneh the prize and close the thread tbh

none of them are a patch on Vettori..

 

[Matt79]

Nah, we're talking about top line spinners, not batsmen who bowl a bit.

 

[GIMH]

hmmm, someone should make a thread about who out of Swann and Hauritz is the better bowler...

Good idea that! I'll do it. I'm thinking of throwing Harris in as well, thoughts?

 

[Matt79]

Don't see what Rolf has to do with it, but we might need someone to paint a picture of the Queen.

 

[Sir Alex]

The best finger spinner right now in operation would be Shakib Al Hasan. Indians are spinner killers and it takes some real quality effort to register a fifer against them, which he did recently.

 

[Richard]

If taking one five-for against India makes such a difference than Ashley Giles was real quality - after all he took-out one at Motera in 2001/02.

 

[Sir Alex]

If taking one five-for against India makes such a difference than Ashley Giles was real quality - after all he took-out one at Motera in 2001/02.

Did I say that was the only criteria why I rate Shakib as the best? He averages 28 and has taken fifers against SA(twice), NZ, Ind, Sri Lanka, WI- the last two are superb players of spin. They guy averages 38 in test match cricket despite having had to play better teams (except perhaps Windies last year).

As to your assertion:

Giles' wickets were Deep Das Gupta, laxman, Kumble, Harbhajan, Srinath on a third day pitch.
Shakib's included Sehwag, Laxman, Yuvraj, Khan & Sreesanth on a first day pitch.

 

[Furball]

none of them are a patch on Vettori..

Assuming you're talking about minnow bashing, bit unfair since Hauritz and Swann are yet to face Bangladesh.

 

[AaronK]

i am surprised that no one has mentioned saqlian's name.. i mean he was the true master of "doosra".. yet very under rated here in this forum..

He does have a better average than Harbhajan Singh..not only in ODI but in test too..

So for me Saqalin is ahead.. I would even pick him over Kumble.. just because at his best he would even perform good at flat and batsman friendly tracks..maybe more because I perfer Off spinners than Leg..

 

[Richard]

Did I say that was the only criteria why I rate Shakib as the best?

No you didn't say anything such - I merely said that the criteria is a pretty irrelevant one.

As to your assertion:

Giles' wickets were Deep Das Gupta, laxman, Kumble, Harbhajan, Srinath on a third day pitch.
Shakib's included Sehwag, Laxman, Yuvraj, Khan & Sreesanth on a first day pitch.

I obviously didn't see the pitch on which Shakib took his haul so can't compare it to the Motera one but clearly different decks behave differently. As for Giles' wickets the ball that got Kumble out would've dismissed anyone so it's better to look at the deliveries rather than list the wickets - for all anyone knows Yuvraj could've played a far worse shot than for instance Srinath.

 

[Richard]

So for me Saqalin is ahead.. at his best he would even perform good at flat and batsman friendly tracks..

Not really. No fingerspinner has ever done that.