Is Harbhajan Singh one of the greatest fingerspinners ever ?

[Richard]

Saqlain was also better at tests than murali was in his prime if you look at their economy rates and the amount of wickets tooken in amount of matches in the years of which saqlain was in his prime(1990-2001) and in the years murali was in his prime (2004-2006), so im not sure where your getting your stats from man.

Can't say I remotely agree but I'm not going to bother saying, again, why I think Murali was always better than Saqlain, at any given point, because I've already said it several times.

 

[aussie]

What complete and utter tripe.

Saqlain's had 2 good years (99: 42 @ 24.07 in 7 matches and 02: 51 @ 24.47 in 11 matches) - in no other year has he averaged under 28.

From 98 through to 2008, Murali only had 2 years where he averaged more than 24.07 and in 6 of the other 9 he averaged under 20!

At no point can you say Saqlain was better at tests then Murali.

Oh thats stats...

Would defanately say Saqlain between 95-2000 based on what i saw was comparable to Murali as an off-spinner. But never better than Murali though.

 

[aussie]

Come on Aussie, I just turned 60 not 160

Ha no issue sir. But what do know about Trumble though?. I have read alot about him & i'd say he was easily AUS best off-spinner. Although some may argue thats a bit like stating the obvious, akin to saying Dev was India's best ever fast-bowler.

The trouble with mentioning Jim Laker is that someone will then mention 19/90 and that will start Burgey off about deliberately underprepared Old Trafford wickets and before you can say "Jardine was a cheating pommie **** " we'll have another bloody thread about Murraymints

 

[Uppercut]

Harbhajan is without doubt the greatest ever finger spinner to come from Punjab, and also play for Surrey and Lancashire

If one took away Murali (disqualified for using his wrist more than his fingers) the best finger spinners one has seen would rank something like this.

1. Prasanna
2. Bedi
3. Gibbs
4. Underwood
5. Saqlain

Its early morning where I am after a very late night so I may have missed someone but no one that would displace the top three anyway.

I'd be interested in why you rank Prasanna over Bedi?

Not that I'd disagree, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the two in comparison. Feel free to direct me elsewhere if you've done so before .

 

[Jarquis]

Distinct lack of Graeme Swann, though I realise he's been removed from the discussion in the interest of fairness.

 

[Richard]

I'd be interested in why you rank Prasanna over Bedi?

Not that I'd disagree, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the two in comparison. Feel free to direct me elsewhere if you've done so before .

He has done many times. It's a matter I myself find truly intreguing, because Prasanna has never really struck me as anything other than "good".

 

[Athlai]

Would say Murali is a finger spinner personally despite his rubbery wrist. He could be easily put into a unique class entirely since no one in the world bowls anything like him. A fingist spinner or a wringer spinner.

 

[Richard]

Personally am happy with either wristspinner or spinner-like-no-other, but fingerspinner I feel is a gross distortion of the facts. Murali is nothing like a fingerspinner - only in that all spinners (in fact all bowlers) use their fingers is he so, and so are Stuart MacGill, Arthur Mailey and yes, even John Watkins and David Sincock.

 

[Migara]

I'd be interested in why you rank Prasanna over Bedi?

Not that I'd disagree, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the two in comparison. Feel free to direct me elsewhere if you've done so before .

I would think that Prasanna added that bit of X factor unlike Bedi.

 

[Burgey]

The trouble with mentioning Jim Laker is that someone will then mention 19/90 and that will start Burgey off about deliberately underprepared Old Trafford wickets and before you can say "Jardine was a cheating pommie **** " we'll have another bloody thread about Murraymints

As far as I can recall I 've not started a thread on Murray Mints, though perhaps in my dotage I've forgotten doing so, and TBPFH I couldn't be arsed looking to see if I did.

Not a bad idea though...

 

[AaronK]

Murali's stock-ball is a completely different delivery than Saqlain's stock-ball; likewise, Murali's Wrong-'Un is a completely different delivery than Saqlain's Doosra.

If Murali says he was "inspired" to bowl a Wrong-'Un by Saqlain it's clearly true, but it's no more bowling the same ball as the fact that Mark David Chapman was inspired to murder John Lennon by The Catcher In The Rye was Chapman doing the same as the author.

Murali's ball which turns the other way is a completely different ball to anything else that has ever been bowled, and being the phenomenal bowler he is I rather doubt that if he'd not had Saqlain to give him the idea of bowling a Wrong-'Un he'd not have found someone else to do so.

Will people stop talking about ODIs? This is CricketWeb.net - here, discussion centres around Test cricket unless otherwise stated. There is some amount of case for Saqlain being better in ODIs than Murali at some point, but in Tests there is no contest, Murali was better (often miles better) than Saqlain all career, end of.

i have no idea what u r talking about.. i have always thought that the Wrong one is the same as "doosra".. anyways even cricinfo is saying that Saqalin is the inventor of '"doosra'". here is the link

Ask Steven: Border's unique feat, and the <i>teesra</i> | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | Cricinfo.com

 

[fredfertang]

There are those who say that the Pakistani offie of the 50's, Zulfiqar Ahmed, had a doosra - trouble is I've forgotten who "they" are so I can't quote them

 

[Richard]

i have no idea what u r talking about.. i have always thought that the Wrong one is the same as "doosra".. anyways even cricinfo is saying that Saqalin is the inventor of '"doosra'". here is the link

Ask Steven: Border's unique feat, and the <i>teesra</i> | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | Cricinfo.com

By "Wrong-'Un" I mean a ball that turns the opposite way to the stock-ball. A conventional wristspinner's Wrong-'Un is usually called the Googly; a fingerspinner's is now termed the "Doosra" thanks to Saqlain and Moin Khan. Anyone who thinks Saqlain "invented" the fingerspinner's Wrong-'Un is wrong, plain and simple - all he did was give it a name. There were almost certainly others who had bowled it before him.

Murali's stock-ball and Wrong-'Un are both unique balls that can be compared to neither a fingerspinner nor a stock-in-trade wristspinner. Hence there's no point in suggesting there's precedent for anything Murali has done.

As for all these hundreds of supposed extra deliveries, well, Jack Iverson put it best when he said "the ball can do three things: break to the off, break to the leg or go straight on. It can't disappear or explode". Yes of course there are different degrees which it can turn and different ways to disguise what a ball's going to do (Warne's slider, topspinner and flipper all went straight on but they were disguised differently and one skidded, one bounced) but there are only three directions it can go in.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Furthering on what SJS said about Australians swearing on Prasanna's ability, they still use him as a resource for young spinners that they take over to India.

 

[Richard]

Always found it really interesting about Australians swearing so hard on Prasanna, as it's something I've never found mirrored elsewhere.

England fans\players of the sort of age for instance tend to consider that all of Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna had rather more made of them than they merit. The "Indian spin quartet" is something I've only ever heard glorified and realised was probably the best spin attack in history (only the South African wristspin triplet, Schwarz Vogler and Faulkner of the 1900s and 1910s, could top it) since I've gotten other sources online.

 

[Burgey]

Always found it really interesting about Australians swearing so hard on Prasanna, as it's something I've never found mirrored elsewhere.

England fans\players of the sort of age for instance tend to consider that all of Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna had rather more made of them than they merit. The "Indian spin quartet" is something I've only ever heard glorified and realised was probably the best spin attack in history (only the South African wristspin triplet, Schwarz Vogler and Faulkner of the 1900s and 1910s, could top it) since I've gotten other sources online.

A lot of that seems to stem from Chappelli's high regard for him I think. Marsh, Mallett, Jenner all from that era too - the guys who've influenced a lot of the Aussie coaching regimes. They clearly hold him in good stead.

 

[Richard]

Yeah - and aside from the famous 1969/70 tour I can't immediately think how many times Chappelli would've faced him. Certainly wouldn't have been all that many. Maybe 1967/68?

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, not sure. But iirc Chappelli rates him the best spinner he ever faced.