Is Dhoni greatest OdI cricketer off all-time

[OverratedSanity]

I still think Kapil's ODI batting is immensely overrated. Granted I obviously didnt watch him so it could be I'm missing something, But statistically, I dont find his batting career that impressive. He literally didnt cross 50 even once in his last 100+ ODIs.

 

[ankitj]

Anyone with a middling average like Kapil can have career cut into a slice where he was quite handy and a corresponding slice where he was meh. Oerall, averages don't lie.

 

[h_hurricane]

Im not bringing Afridi up because he deserves serious comparison to Kapil. He just happens to match your stated figures. We know Afridis averages are garbage. The worse they are, the better it illustrates the point that your simplification into SRs is devoid of meaning in the absence of averages. Afridi got panned for his bad batting average in particular by everyone not from Pakistan, because people recognise that his average is too poor for the SR to make that big a difference. Kapil gets a lot less flack though despite having the same average.

This chopping careers up into whatever size is convienient really is no good. And its particularly pointless here, when you are comparing him to a guy who played longer and in a whole lot more matches than him. Its particularly prevelant with 80s ARs. I guess it started with Bothams lopsided career, and everyone figured it was now a fair game approach to defend whoever their favourite AR was.

At what average would you stop defending Kapil on account of his SR? Would a sub 20 average be acceptable? That is less than 4 runs away.

It all boils down to the era right ? In the era Kapil played, India had Gavaskar, Amarnath, Vengsarkar, Shastri, Yashpal etc. None of these players could produce the kind of destructive batting Kapil was capable of. He had a specific role to play i.e make those quickfire 20s,30s and 40s. Would have been gold in the era he played where 230-240 used to be match winning scores. Others around him would do the work of scoring a 100 ball 50 or 120 ball 70. And this strategy worked beautifully for a long time. No wonder India was such a good ODI team from 1983- 1987 or so. So in a nutshell Kapil excelled in his role.

24@95 is very good in his era in which 35@65 or 30@75 was considered a hallmark of a good ODI batsman.

I am not a big fan of splitting a player's career either. In this case though, I was comparing peak decade of Kapil with peak decade of Afridi. You could take their whole careers and a similar gulf exists.

While comparing Kapil with someone like Flintoff or Klusener though, I feel it is fair to compare 80s Kapil with their whole career. Neither of them had anywhere near his longevity. And both dodged their declines by retiring at the same age that Kapil started to decline.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Slightly off topic but does Bevan have the greatest jaw-line in cricket history?

 

[stephen]

Slightly off topic but does Bevan have the greatest jaw-line in cricket history?

Stoinis says hi.

 

[Daemon]

Slightly off topic but does Bevan have the greatest jaw-line in cricket history?

greatest or best? please be specific.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Stoinis says hi.

fair call

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

While a bowling average of 27 in ODIs was good without being great in the 80s, a batting average of 27 at a high strike rate to go with that was pretty damn awesome for the time. Kapil was certainly ahead of his time with the bat and counts as one of the few all rounders in contention for the number 7 spot in an AT ODI side. Probably only Klusener was definitively superior as a bowling all rounder.

Klusner 1996-2004 (9yrs) vs Kapil (entire 80s)

BATTING ( among top 50 run scorers)

Klusner 17 th Highest Run scorer (3576 runs) of his time
(17th highest in 80s - Kepler wessels 1740 runs)
Kapil 13th highest run scorer of 80s - 2869 runs
(13th highest 1996-04 - Grant Flower 5912 runs)

Klusner - avg 41 - 12th highest (Chris Broad 40)
Kapil - avg 27 - 40th highest ( Sehwag 32)

Klusner - 90 SR -5th (Ijaz 83 )
Kapil - 102 SR -highest- (Afridi 103)

BOWLING(among top 50 wicket takers )

Klusner - 192 wickets -17th (Geoff Lawson 88 wickets )
Kapil - 168 wickets - highest ( Murali 331 wickets )

Klusner - avg 30 - 29th ( Walsh 29.5)
Kapil - avg 26 - 17th ( Warne 27)

Klusner - ER 4.7 - 37th ( Mudassar Nazar 4.27)
Kapil - ER 3.68 - 13th ( Saqlain 4.29)
Apparently Kapil is a combination of 3 ATG spinners..

Klusner better batsman, Kapil better bowler.. a useless exercise as its a well known fact. But then, these stats disagree with People who claims Kapil's batting is overrated.

 

[Victor Ian]

Who was the best finisher in ODIs before bevan came along and made us realise finishing was a thing?

 

[ankitj]

Who was the best finisher in ODIs before bevan came along and made us realise finishing was a thing?

Dean Jones?

 

[harsh.ag]

MSD chasing 23 in the last over

 

[trundler]

Dean Jones?

Probably one of Salim Malik, Ranatunga or Fairbrother.

 

[h_hurricane]

Who was the best finisher in ODIs before bevan came along and made us realise finishing was a thing?

Allan Lamb

 

[Migara]

Klusner 1996-2004 (9yrs) vs Kapil (entire 80s)

BATTING ( among top 50 run scorers)

Klusner 17 th Highest Run scorer (3576 runs) of his time
(17th highest in 80s - Kepler wessels 1740 runs)
Kapil 13th highest run scorer of 80s - 2869 runs
(13th highest 1996-04 - Grant Flower 5912 runs)

Klusner - avg 41 - 12th highest (Chris Broad 40)
Kapil - avg 27 - 40th highest ( Sehwag 32)

Klusner - 90 SR -5th (Ijaz 83 )
Kapil - 102 SR -highest- (Afridi 103)

BOWLING(among top 50 wicket takers )

Klusner - 192 wickets -17th (Geoff Lawson 88 wickets )
Kapil - 168 wickets - highest ( Murali 331 wickets )

Klusner - avg 30 - 29th ( Walsh 29.5)
Kapil - avg 26 - 17th ( Warne 27)

Klusner - ER 4.7 - 37th ( Mudassar Nazar 4.27)
Kapil - ER 3.68 - 13th ( Saqlain 4.29)
Apparently Kapil is a combination of 3 ATG spinners..

Klusner better batsman, Kapil better bowler.. a useless exercise as its a well known fact. But then, these stats disagree with People who claims Kapil's batting is overrated.

Comparing Kapil vs Saqlain in ER is utter rubbish exercise. Saqlain was a tier above Kapil with the ball

 

[vcs]

Slightly off topic but does Bevan have the greatest jaw-line in cricket history?

Not even the greatest jawline of a batsman of his own country in the same era who was quickly dropped in Tests.

That thing should have a postcode of its own FFS

 

[Burgey]

Dean Jones?

Deano probably batted a bit high to be considered for that role, but as much as it pains me to say it he was certainly a great LO player.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Who was the best finisher in ODIs before bevan came along and made us realise finishing was a thing?

Miandad? Jones?

 

[Burgey]

Not even the greatest jawline of a batsman of his own country in the same era who was quickly dropped in Tests.

That thing should have a postcode of its own FFS

By "greatest", do we mean best, most chiseled, one of several or simply one which is the size of a small regional airport?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Comparing Kapil vs Saqlain in ER is utter rubbish exercise. Saqlain was a tier above Kapil with the ball

Yeah.. Saqlain is the greatest ever spinner in odis.
Kapil's ER probably better though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That's not a bad call but I think Bevan's is still both greater, and better, than Elliott's

Elliott's jawline isn't as special either given that he comes from a state full of alpha, testosterone-filled males. Bevan however, hailing from NSW (ACT actually but same same), a state known for it's soy-infested beta males, stands out more.