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Is Ben Stokes an ATG test cricketer?

Is Ben Stokes an ATG test cricketer?

  • Total voters
    47
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
BazBall21 said:
Never enjoyed McCullum either. Obviously a good player but too much pre-meditated improvising/slogging. Gilly was top class imo. He looked in control so much more than McCullum did and was more orthodox etc.

And anyone who doesn't regard him as a ATG cricketer clearly has a metric system that's too rigid or biased.
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Nobody said he wasn’t an ATG cricketer. Lots of us just don’t consider him an ATG batsman. While he was a good pure keeper as well, I don’t think I’d consider him an ATG pure keeper either.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
howitzer said:
I have him as an ATG cricketer. It's 'Borderline ATG batsman' I don't agree with.
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There's a reason Viv's 50 average hits differently to Border's. Part of it was peak and subsequent decline, but a lot of it was how the runs were scored, and the consequence of said runs.

Same with Gilchrist, yes he's 3 runs short of the magical 50 mark, but my God he scored like the wind and turned the tide of matches in a heart beat.

When you compare him to the other two great all rounders, he may be last in primary skills compared to Imran and Sobers, but easily first in the secondary skills.

And for those who says he isn't an ATG keeper, then he has no right in your ATG team, no matter how good he was with the bat. No he wasn't Healy, but Walsh wasn't Marshall, doesn't mean he wasn't great
 
J

Jumno

First Class Debutant
He is up there, played many clutch innings in win, loss games. Got to hand it to him.
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Too early to assess where Stokes stands as captain but he’d need an Ashes win.
 
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Reactions: Gob
H

howitzer

State Captain
Line and Length said:
Surely no-one would be peed off if you mentioned Mike Brearley
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Think he might be worried kyear would take offence if he didn't classify Lloyd as an ATG cricketer but not sure i've ever seen kyear claim him as one anyway. Still curious as to what Coronis meant.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
howitzer said:
Think he might be worried kyear would take offence if he didn't classify Lloyd as an ATG cricketer but not sure i've ever seen kyear claim him as one anyway. Still curious as to what Coronis meant.
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Me, no. Never called Lloyd an ATG captain. He had a great team, actually people said he was by no means tactically astute, think captaincy overall is a tad over rated, but again... Depends what you're looking for.
Great tactician, great motivator or great results. Guys like Border or Richards pushed / bullied(?) the best of their squads, Imran inspired, molded.

At the end of the day, it's about results and that's not possible without a good team. What I will concede is that a great team is always better with the right leader, but as meatloaf said ...

know you're lookin' for a ruby in a mountain of rocks
But there ain't no Coupe de Ville hidin'
At the bottom of a Cracker Jack box

Or simply out, can't get water form a stone.
 
H

howitzer

State Captain
kyear2 said:
Me, no. Never called Lloyd an ATG captain. He had a great team, actually people said he was by no means tactically astute, think captaincy overall is a tad over rated, but again... Depends what you're looking for.
Great tactician, great motivator or great results. Guys like Border or Richards pushed / bullied(?) the best of their squads, Imran inspired, molded.

At the end of the day, it's about results and that's not possible without a good team. What I will concede is that a great team is always better with the right leader, but as meatloaf said ...

know you're lookin' for a ruby in a mountain of rocks
But there ain't no Coupe de Ville hidin'
At the bottom of a Cracker Jack box

Or simply out, can't get water form a stone.
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Was just trying to work out who he meant.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
howitzer said:
Was just trying to work out who he meant.
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No worries.

And I don't jump to the defence of any and every WI player.

Outside of Bradman I think Marshall has the cleanest record in the game and was a winner, and I think Sobers was the most versatile and in the ways that I find to be most impactful (ATG attacking batsman, who's brilliant at slip and unparalleled versatility as a bowler), so that's the edge for me oved Imran as an all rounder. I may value Immy's primary skill a bit more, but the other two don't move the needle for me, but guess that's what I saw growing up. But outside of that, I think Tendy is better than Sobers, Viv and Lara (though still think Lara at his best was untouchable and best I've ever seen) as a batsman and that Smith had also surpassed the Prince. Steyn was better than Sir Curtly, no argument there.

Subz today just made an asinine post that genuinely annoyed me, but wasn't because he was from the WI, just because it made no sense. And the same way I've defended Hutton, Gilly, Steyn etc.

Anyways please ignore and continue along with the thread.
 
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