Indian seamers..

[Lambu]

I feel that the Indian pacers are better than this particular lot of aussie bowlers(by quite some distance)..granted they are not as quick as the aussies but they are hardly trundlers.But pace aside,i feel indians are much better off at getting both conventional and reverse swing..we have seen this in all innings of this series.And before as well when India toured England.But this is the only time,we got to compare the two units.So what does everyone feel?

Personally,i don't like the fact how people seem to write-off our bowlers as no good even before a series starts.We have seen this many times from the aussie supporters on this forum..even when the indian seamers outperformed them,one or two wrote it off and stated that "they fully expected things to change on pitch that isn't two paced" etc etc..

Also i'm so fed up with people bashing indians seamers left,right and centre while their less talented counterparts always flatter to deceive.I want to see a bit of appreciation for a change..

 

[Uppercut]

For all the merits of Ishant and Zaheer, Lee and Clark are both better (at this moment in time, anyway). Can't see anyone who isn't Indian arguing otherwise.

 

[masterblaster]

For all the merits of Ishant and Zaheer, Lee and Clark are both better (at this moment in time, anyway). Can't see anyone who isn't Indian arguing otherwise.

I'd agree with that. Although for India, the signs are promising.

 

[Lambu]

For all the merits of Ishant and Zaheer, Lee and Clark are both better (at this moment in time, anyway). Can't see anyone who isn't Indian arguing otherwise.

Sorry not in these conditions.Well even if they are better,you surely have to agree that Indians are much better at getting conventional and reverse swing(Aussies hardly get it).

 

[pasag]

Sorry not in these conditions.Well even if they are better,you surely have to agree that Indians are much better at getting conventional and reverse swing(Aussies hardly get it).

Australia's lack of any sort of swing in recent times even when the other side has gotten it on the exact same day is a concern.

 

[Uppercut]

Sorry not in these conditions.Well even if they are better,you surely have to agree that Indians are much better at getting conventional and reverse swing(Aussies hardly get it).

Yeah, kinda. Although Brett Lee got some vicious reverse swing in the West Indies at times, so it's not like he's not capable of it. It's not really clear whether it reflects on the bowlers themselves or the actual team's ability to condition the ball well during the match.

I think you're reading too much into the past one and a bit matches. I'd have Lee and Clark in my team over Ishant and Zaheer in all conditions tbh. Calling Ishant and Zaheer better than those two is implying that they're the two best fast bowlers in the world.

 

[Lambu]

Yeah, kinda. Although Brett Lee got some vicious reverse swing in the West Indies at times, so it's not like he's not capable of it. It's not really clear whether it reflects on the bowlers themselves or the actual team's ability to condition the ball well during the match.

I think you're reading too much into the past one and a bit matches. I'd have Lee and Clark in my team over Ishant and Zaheer in all conditions tbh. Calling Ishant and Zaheer better than those two is implying that they're the two best fast bowlers in the world.

Lee? best bowler in the world???no way mate.The guy has been rubbish all through his career when he gets to play on relatively bowler-friendly conditions(well better than sub-continent wickets anyway).And he still was averaging in the upper 30's.He has had a purple patch for the last 18 months when he hwas averaging 22 per wicket.But that phase i believe is well and truly over.

Also i get the feeling that Zak particularly is way too under-estimated.The guy has been on a different lavel for quite sometime now(consistently).Take a look at his performances against England in England and also in the 1 test he played in Aus.Also against SL.I understand thats the samething i told about Lee but just look at how Zak gets the ball to talk so early(reverse).He is way better than Lee(who is doing everything he can btw) in these conditions.

 

[Uppercut]

Lee? best bowler in the world???no way mate.The guy has been rubbish all through his career when he gets to play on relatively bowler-friendly conditions(well better than sub-continent wickets anyway).And he still was averaging in the upper 30's.He has had a purple patch for the last 18 months when he hwas averaging 22 per wicket.But that phase i believe is well and truly over.

Based on the past one and a bit matches on flat, flat decks? It's worth remembering that Sharma and Zaheer have never performed anywhere near that well for a period of 18 months.

Thought anyone who's watched him bowl in the past two years would have ranked him in the current top 3, for me it's Lee alongside Clark and Steyn.

 

[Lambu]

Based on the past one and a bit matches on flat, flat decks? It's worth remembering that Sharma and Zaheer have never performed anywhere near that well for a period of 18 months.

Thought anyone who's watched him bowl in the past two years would have ranked him in the current top 3, for me it's Lee alongside Clark and Steyn.

But Zak has been performing for 2 years..from the SA tour.And why are you discounting performances on flat decks..after all its the same for both bowlers.Clearly one who performs better on the flat deck is better.

 

[Uppercut]

But Zak has been performing for 2 years..from the SA tour.And why are you discounting performances on flat decks..after all its the same for both bowlers.Clearly one who performs better on the flat deck is better.

Well yeah he's performed, he's a good bowler. Very good performance against SA (but still failed to get his average below 30 for the tour). Was superb in England IIRC, huge factor in India winning that series. But since then he's been, on the whole, mediocre to poor against Pakistan, Australia and Sri Lanka. Meanwhile Lee has completely and utterly tore through SA, bowled rather well indeed in the Ashes against England, ran through Sri Lanka, India and the West Indies before starting off this series with one poor match. It's hard to look at their respective recent records and put Zaheer above him.

 

[Manee]

In Tests, India have a promising range of bowlers, all who have the vital ability to swing the ball greatly at times.

Ishant Sharma is a talent with the potential to one day be world class. Ishant has pace (got up to 147kph with an effort ball today), bounce, good accuracy and a troubling angle.

Zaheer Khan is highly underrated by many, including myself, as a seaming-track-bully, but it would seem that Zaheer has began to fully understood the mechanics of swing and it has helped him greatly, the way he can swing the ball both ways with seemingly no change in quality of accuracy is admirable. Zaheer is up there with the best Test bowlers at the moment, based on his outstanding performances in South Africa, in England, in Sri Lanka and finally in this series.

Behind that, the ability drops off vastly, but there are still a few underrated bowlers. Munaf Patel is a talented Test bowler who brings an extra 'oomph' to an attack when in his stride. He is most certainly in the Mcgrath mould with the ability to bowl deliveries over 140kph. Sreesanth is never one who's Test potential has impressed me but you cannot discount his fantastic swing and 'never say die' attitude. Sreesanth also has the ability to crank it up to 140kph on hot and humid conditions.

RP Singh, Irfan Pathan and Praveen Kumar are (and could be) very good Test bowlers in helpful swinging conditions such as England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, but nowhere else, in my opinion.

 

[Uppercut]

Zaheer Khan is highly underrated by many, including myself, as a seaming-track-bully, but it would seem that Zaheer has began to fully understood the mechanics of swing and it has helped him greatly, the way he can swing the ball both ways with seemingly no change in quality of accuracy is admirable. Zaheer is up there with the best Test bowlers at the moment, based on his outstanding performances in South Africa, in England, in Sri Lanka and finally in this series.

8 wickets in 3 matches at 44 in Sri Lanka. You're getting confused with his ODI performances, which were indeed very good.

 

[Lambu]

Zak avging 28 in the last 2 years.That has got be good considering he plays more often than Lee in sub-continent wickets.

EDIT:but yeah doesn't beat Lee's 22 per wicket for 18 months.Anyways i think he is the better bowler in these conditions and my thoughts totally agree with what Manee has posted about Zak.

 

[TT Boy]

"Fantastic Indian seamers", all two of them.

 

[TT Boy]

Zak avging 28 in the last 2 years.That has got be good considering he plays more often than Lee in sub-continent wickets.

EDIT:but yeah doesn't beat Lee's 22 per wicket for 18 months.Anyways i think he is the better bowler in these conditions and my thoughts totally agree with what Manee has posted about Zak.

And usually does sweet FA and Australian test wickets are the flattest going...

 

[silentstriker]

For all the merits of Ishant and Zaheer, Lee and Clark are both better (at this moment in time, anyway). Can't see anyone who isn't Indian arguing otherwise.

AWTA

"Fantastic Indian seamers", all two of them.

Actually, I think India have very good depth right now. Munaf Patel, RP Singh and Sreesanth are all pushing Zaheer and Ishant for a spot. It's rare that we have semi-decent bowlers, let alone backups.

Now, it's not quite time to herald fast bowling renaissance in India, but the signs are promising. We'll know in a year or two.

Australia are still better though, perhaps not in these conditions, but overall? I'll take Lee anyday, and I really wouldn't even have a second thought.

 

[Manee]

8 wickets in 3 matches at 44 in Sri Lanka. You're getting confused with his ODI performances, which were indeed very good.

I think he bowled very well, despite the poor returns, which I was aware of.

 

[TT Boy]

AWTA



Actually, I think India have very good depth right now. Munaf Patel, RP Singh and Sreesanth are all pushing Zaheer and Ishant for a spot. It's rare that we have semi-decent bowlers, let alone backups.

Now, it's not quite time to herald fast bowling renaissance in India, but the signs are promising. We'll know in a year or two.

Australia are still better though, perhaps not in these conditions, but overall? I'll take Lee anyday, and I really wouldn't even have a second thought.

I don’t think RP Singh is anything to write home to Mummy about it unless his playing under lights in Kingsmead. Remember his test performances against South Africa? Sreesanth has been around some years now and has flattered to deceive after a fantastic series in the Republic, where he was bowling 90mph huge outswingers and Munaf is an enigma or a lazy ****, maybe both.

 

[Precambrian]

Yep, it's certainly the most promising time for India in the fast bowling department ever in history. However it will be farcical to suggest that Zak and Ish are superior to Lee and Clark. L & C have backed their potential with performances. Zak has been good for the last couple of years, but not as "Lee"thal. Ish's not even 20, and though he's learning and improving like an upside down stock index, has to still go a long way before he's called the best. He has certainly the potential though, and no pacer below 25 has exhibited performances matching his for the last few years. (Steynjie is above 25 I hope)

 

[honestbharani]

India's pace attack looks promising but Aussies' one has been PERFORMING for 18 months or so now.....