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Indian One-Day Opener in Sachin's Absence?
- Thread starter adharcric
- Start date
ramkumar_gr
U19 Vice-Captain
I do not think Pathan deserves an allrounder tag. He has done well with the bat, but please dont redefine what it takes to be called an allrounder.Anil said:
does the phrase "can become" mean anything to you?ramkumar_gr said:
also i don't suppose you noticed that i specifically said "one-day allrounder" now, did you?
i don't like the usage all that much, but bits-and-pieces players, bowlers who can bat a bit and batsmen who can bowl a bit have come to be called all-rounders in the one day world for some time now...also please note what kind of figures c_c is expecting from such an all-rounder, imo pathan can develop himself into that kind of utility player...
ramkumar_gr
U19 Vice-Captain
You have precisely agreed what i have written. Good that you have defined who is an one-day allrounder. Then what do you say about Razzaq,Kallis,Cairns (one day all-rounder * one day all-rounder * one day all-rounder ***). Can you tell me what is his batting credentials in FC cricket. What i try to say is done pass any judgement , because we will be first ones to get disappointed. This is something we have done with Agarkar,Powar,Joginder Sharma,Sunil Joshi.Anil said:does the phrase "can become" mean anything to you?
also i don't suppose you noticed that i specifically said "one-day allrounder" now, did you?
also please note what kind of figures c_c is expecting from such an all-rounder, imo pathan can develop himself into that kind of utility player...
a genuine all-rounder in my book is one who can get into a team either on his batting or bowling abilities...of the people you have mentioned, razzaq is an average bowler who can bowl decent-to-good spells every now and then but is in the team much more for his explosive lower-order batting....kallis used to be a genuine all-rounder but over the past couple of years has been more of a frontline batsman who can bowl. cairns i agree is a genuine all-rounder, but one past his prime right now...even razzaq is much more than a bits-and-pieces player...but there are plenty of the utility players who have been called all-rounders as well....plenty from australia like symonds, watson, lehmann....etc...if you notice i didn't say that genuine all-rounders like flintoff and cairns have ceased to be called all-rounders...i just said the scope of the definition has been widened in one day cricket in recent years...ramkumar_gr said:
...and what in my statement about pathan was about "passing judgement"? i just expressed an opinion on how he could be of service to indian cricket in the future...if you don't feel so, that's fine...it's just an opinion, not a prophecy or a prediction...
superkingdave
Hall of Fame Member
7 actually for 30 runs
ramkumar_gr
U19 Vice-Captain
Let us hope Pathan proves me wrong. Yes, as you said, it had been proven in one-days it is enough you have bits-n-pieces players to win matches. Moody,Lehman,Symonds,Azhar Mahmood,Afiridi all have won matches with both their bowling and batting. Let me come back to our topic. Why dont we look at Amay Khurasia. just kidding.Anil said:a genuine all-rounder in my book is one who can get into a team either on his batting or bowling abilities...of the people you have mentioned, razzaq is an average bowler who can bowl decent-to-good spells every now and then but is in the team much more for his explosive lower-order batting....kallis used to be a genuine all-rounder but over the past couple of years has been more of a frontline batsman who can bowl. cairns i agree is a genuine all-rounder, but one past his prime right now...even razzaq is much more than a bits-and-pieces player...but there are plenty of the utility players who have been called all-rounders as well....plenty from australia like symonds, watson, lehmann....etc...if you notice i didn't say that genuine all-rounders like flintoff and cairns have ceased to be called all-rounders...i just said the scope of the definition has been widened in one day cricket in recent years...
...and what in my statement about pathan was about "passing judgement"? i just expressed an opinion on how he could be of service to indian cricket in the future...if you don't feel so, that's fine...it's just an opinion, not a prophecy or a prediction...
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Sunil Joshi- Talented spinner, very handy batsman, but pathetic attitude.
Agarkar- Talented, yet underpowered as a bowler. Paid absolutely no attention to his batting. And what's the point in picking him as an all-rounder, yet not batting him at six or seven?
Powar- Not given a fair try.
Joginder- As said earlier, not given a fair try, not used to white-ball OD cricket and just not seasoned.
Agarkar- Talented, yet underpowered as a bowler. Paid absolutely no attention to his batting. And what's the point in picking him as an all-rounder, yet not batting him at six or seven?
Powar- Not given a fair try.
Joginder- As said earlier, not given a fair try, not used to white-ball OD cricket and just not seasoned.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
A few interesting selections there. You've gone in for the debatable selection of VVS Laxman, whom nobody wants because he's not a good fielder (laughable, since he's a fantastic slip fielder) or a good runner between wickets (although he gets enough boundaries in the first 15 overs)- maybe he'll do a lot better. Moreover, he had an aggregate of 40 last year, but struggled since the Holland tri-series, and is a LOT better than Yuvraj and Kaif.aussie said:
There is no point in batting Yuvraj or Kaif at positions six and seven. It won't help either. Yuvraj is a hard hitter of the ball, but in the pursuit of quick runs, he gets out cheaply attempting a needless shot- that's affected his batting in the longer form of the game. If you want the best out of Yuvraj, you should bat him at four or five, so tat he can build a long innings. The same can be said of Kaif- he's a partnership builder, so if he bats at seven, either he may soak up too many balls (which the team can avoid), or hit a big shot off nearly every ball (which he can't do). You've chosen Ganguly, Laxman and Dravid, who bat for a long time, so these two won't get enough to score big. Let seven and eight go to non-batsmen who can hit the ball hard.
Keep Pathan out of action. He's getting injured a little too often, and he's just got a shoulder injury. Balaji is a target in ODI's- he bowls too slow, and isn't accurate enough at that pace. Harbhajan isn't of much use alone, and he needs a spin partner. You can go in for Rajesh Pawar (left-arm spinner) or Ramesh Powar (off-spinner who can hit the ball very hard). A few suggest Amit Mishra, but I doubt if he's ready for ODI's. But four bowlers among this lot are not enough to even take five wickets, let alone a full ten- you have to have a fifth. On an average, this team will score 242 for 7, which isn't enough given this bowling attack. Rather than improve the quantity, try to boost the quality- convert Kaif's average of 32 into 37 (up the strike rate as well), Yuvraj's average of 29 to 33, and get two bowlers who can score more than 40 together at more than a run a ball.
Dhoni may have had phenomenal success opening in club matches, but these are, after all, club matches. Opening in ODI's is a different cup of tea, and Dhoni's main strength is hitting the old ball, not the new one. He's been woeful against the new ball, but at four/five, he's in his element.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Everyone is sticking to convention. What is wrong with this team? It's very different from any of yours (more or less the same as the one playing), but it's worth a try.
- Sehwag- Attack everything that comes. Hold on to catches and improve outfielding techniques
- Gambhir- Attack a few, build partnerships, run hard, go after spinners, save boundaries on the outfield
- Kaif- Score at a quick pace in the first 15 overs and aim at the stumps from cover.
- Yuvraj- Build an innings, run hard, concentrate on singles.
- Dhoni- Hold on to catches. Go berserk with the bat.
- Dravid- Build a partnership in the later middle-overs, then tear into the attack in the final overs.
- JP Yadav- A little more watchful, watch the ball, then hit, or take the single. Bowl stump-to-stump, and use any old-ball tricks when needed.
- Powar- Smash the ball around, take the singles when needed. Bowl stump-to-stump and make the batsman play.
- Pawar/Harbhajan- Attack the batting side. Keep a tight line and length, and go for wickets. Not economy.
- Zaheer- Take the new ball. Swing it when it is new, then stick to a line/length and occasionally bowl a few snorters. Use the bouncer to good effect. On the outfield, attack the ball by blocking it, rather than arching over.
- Bhandari- Cut out the short stuff, except for the bouncer. USe all tricks of the old and new ball. Bowl on the spot in the final overs.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I actually think your side is really good, Arjun. Only thing is I would have Balaji or Pathan or Agarkar ahead of Bhandari. Agarkar didn't look that bad when he is asked to bowl 4 overs in the 20-30 area and then the other 6 during the slog, where he is more comfortable.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
- Agarkar- He's underpowered as a bowler. If he tries too hard to be a strike bowler, at full pace, he'll lose out on accuracy, which is unacceptable, given his build. If he bowls within limitations, he'll look quite innocuous. He's been tried several times and he's more effectie in the first match of a tournament, then becomes a target as he plays more. His record in finals is worrying, given the lack of series victories. They can afford to try someone different for a few series, becaue they won't lose much.
- Bhandari- Very under-rated seamer. If the selectors would look beyond their very average five options, they would gain a lot by picking him. He is good with the new ball and old, and uses a lot of variations. I have seen clips of him in action- with the new ball, he'll get some swing in either direction, but not as much as Zaheer or Pathan. He can use parts of the pitch to good effect, by moving the ball off it both ways. He changes his pace well and sneaks in the odd bouncer. He's done well playing for India-A, and is quite a handful on seaming wickets. Worth a try.
- Balaji- Not suited to ODI's. Lacks pace and accuracy. His main delivery is the outswinger (quite effective), but he needs more variations in his bowling. With the new biomech expert in te team, maybe he can add a few yards of pace, which will help him a lot.
- Pathan- Recuperating from a shoulder injury. If you have him fit, at full pace and scoring runs, you can bat him at seven. He's a more effective bowler than JP Yadav.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Outside the over-used top five seam options, they can try out Bhandari, VR Singh, RP Singh (going to the Australian Cricket Academy together), Bangar (as a full-time bowler, hopefully he's improved his fielding). The Bengal duo of Paul and Bose can be tried, but neither are particularly good on the field. Gagandeep is a very good fielder, but his bowling may not be suited to OD's. Joginder is not seasoned, and needs to play in the Elite league or A-team for a few series. A pity to see A'vishkar Salvi, once running hot for India-A, struggling to stay fit.