Indian cricket off season discussion

[Arjun]

Why is Dinesh Mongia such a hot pick for ODI's? He's replacing a world class batsman like Laxman on the grounds of fielding and running between wickets (and also bowling, for some strange reason), but has done nothing of note anywhere. He plays out too many dot balls, doesn't run between wickets (even drops his bat in the crease), and just as he's getting set, he plays a nothing shot. He's had difficulties batting against off-spinners, particularly when the ball comes in from outside off. His fielding is no great shakes- Laxman was fantastic in the slips and decent elsewhere. As for his bowling- it's a joke- even Laxman can do better!

 

[Deja moo]

Why is Dinesh Mongia such a hot pick for ODI's? He's replacing a world class batsman like Laxman on the grounds of fielding and running between wickets (and also bowling, for some strange reason), but has done nothing of note anywhere. He plays out too many dot balls, doesn't run between wickets (even drops his bat in the crease), and just as he's getting set, he plays a nothing shot. He's had difficulties batting against off-spinners, particularly when the ball comes in from outside off. His fielding is no great shakes- Laxman was fantastic in the slips and decent elsewhere. As for his bowling- it's a joke- even Laxman can do better!

Is that why he was so economical bowling for Lancs last year ?

 

[superkingdave]

M9 O 49.1 M 1 R 242 W 5 Ave 48.40 BB 2-42 - - SR 59.0 ER 4.92

Perhaps you are thinking of his Twenty20 bowling (13-0-52-8)

 

[Deja moo]

M9 O 49.1 M 1 R 242 W 5 Ave 48.40 BB 2-42 - - SR 59.0 ER 4.92

Perhaps you are thinking of his Twenty20 bowling (13-0-52-8)

yeah..they broadcast only the twenty20 games here. Didnt realise he'd picked up 8 wickets too..must have been batsmen slogging themselves out.

 

[superkingdave]

The pitches at OT favour spinners, and the one in the semi where he had 3-0-6-2 certainly spun, be he did bowl well.

 

[SJS]

It is funny that people should pitch SOOOOO strongly for Amarnath as coach. I know him personally and have playyed with him and spent plenty of time chatting with him too.

He was a very good batsman. Should have played much more than he did. Maybe he would make a good coach too. but its only MAYBE !! Who knows for sure ?? He has no worthwhile credentials, past performance as a coach.

It is amazing that his name was included. I can think of only two reasons,.
- One, the most likely, that they wanted to quell the protests about "why not an Indian? " Patil seemed to realise that and was very very cynical about being called when he was first approached by the media about his name being included. He seemed to hint that there was no chance of his being selected. read the intervies if you havent.

Two, Gavaskar wants to have his own man as coach to keep his foot firmly in the door to the team. I know it sounds very cynical but it is amazing the way Gavaskar pitched for Jimmy. I would love to hear Gavaskars arguments on his preference for Jimmy above Chappell. Thank God none of the others supported Gavaskar on this.

Jimmy seems to have positively messed up his presentation. His problems with his lap top, which cant handle himself and claims it as some kind of a swadeshi (homegrown) pluspoint which he carries around like a tricolour when he says cricket is played on the ground and not on the computer !

He took two hours against the 45 minutes alotted to him znd zte into the time meant for others. I wonder what he was doing. It does not give the impression of a very organised person, does it.

 

[Deja moo]

It is funny that people should pitch SOOOOO strongly for Amarnath as coach. I know him personally and have playyed with him and spent plenty of time chatting with him too.

He was a very good batsman. Should have played much more than he did. Maybe he would make a good coach too. but its only MAYBE !! Who knows for sure ?? He has no worthwhile credentials, past performance as a coach.

It is amazing that his name was included. I can think of only two reasons,.
- One, the most likely, that they wanted to quell the protests about "why not an Indian? " Patil seemed to realise that and was very very cynical about being called when he was first approached by the media about his name being included. He seemed to hint that there was no chance of his being selected. read the intervies if you havent.

Two, Gavaskar wants to have his own man as coach to keep his foot firmly in the door to the team. I know it sounds very cynical but it is amazing the way Gavaskar pitched for Jimmy. I would love to hear Gavaskars arguments on his preference for Jimmy above Chappell. Thank God none of the others supported Gavaskar on this.

Jimmy seems to have positively messed up his presentation. His problems with his lap top, which cant handle himself and claims it as some kind of a swadeshi (homegrown) pluspoint which he carries around like a tricolour when he says cricket is played on the ground and not on the computer !

He took two hours against the 45 minutes alotted to him znd zte into the time meant for others. I wonder what he was doing. It does not give the impression of a very organised person, does it.

yes, the flag thing was too much. And cricketers like him who say that coaching at the highest level has little to do with technical stuff shouldnt even have been considered.

 

[honestbharani]

Chappell has talked about a core group of players and quite interestingly, he has only talked up the prospects of Dhoni and has not mentioned Kaarthick at all. I still rate Kaarthik as the better keeper of the two and even as a better batter, in terms of technique and stuff. While I think Dhoni is a great ODI prospect, I still think Kaarthick is the best bet for Tests. What do you guys think?

 

[SJS]

Chappell has talked about a core group of players and quite interestingly, he has only talked up the prospects of Dhoni and has not mentioned Kaarthick at all. I still rate Kaarthik as the better keeper of the two and even as a better batter, in terms of technique and stuff. While I think Dhoni is a great ODI prospect, I still think Kaarthick is the best bet for Tests. What do you guys think?

I think Chappell responds to questions put to him by the media. So we tend to hear only bits and pieces. He was asked about Dhoni and he said what he thought. I dont think anyone asked him about Kaartick

 

[honestbharani]

ok, my bad. But what about the comparison between those two? Who do you think is better looking for the long term?

 

[SJS]

ok, my bad. But what about the comparison between those two? Who do you think is better looking for the long term?

Its too early to say.

Rather than say that Karthick is better for tests compared to Dhoni, I would say, Dhoni is better for ODI's as compared to Kaarthick.

Karthick is supposed to be a superb batsman from all thatI have heard from cricketers but we ned to see that in tests more often. Dhoni, of course, hasnt been tried yet.

 

[honestbharani]

yeah, that was what I felt as well. But the point, juz looking at both of them bat (albeit in different versions) I would feel more comfortable with Dinesh in the middle when we are 50/5 or something than Dhoni. Kaarthick juz looks more organised as a batter than Dhoni. Dhoni, though, has big power and could be our ideal no.7, if he practises batting there more often.

 

[Arjun]

Holder to coach Maharashtra Ranji side

MCA’s coup: Oz coach Holder on board in Pune


K. SHRINIWAS RAO


PUNE, JUNE 7: Giving an unexpected fillip to India’s much-neglected domestic cricket, the Maharashtra Cricket Association is on the verge of signing on Australian coaching expert Darren Holder as chief coach for the next season. Sources say that the deal is through and a formal announcement will be made by the MCA in the near future.
Getting Holder — who spent seven months last year as coaching manager to the West Indies Cricket Board — on board is a coup of no small proportions for the MCA, a state association recently in the news for all the wrong reasons. First, the Abhijeet Kale ‘‘bribery’’ case, then the bitter wranglings among officials.

Happily, cricket appears to be back in focus.

Though MCA officials refused to comment on the issue, Holder, when contacted in Sydney, said it was almost a done deal. ‘‘If everything goes right, I want to be there at least by mid-July. It will give me some time for initial preparations before the season gets underway.’’

This is the second recent case of a foreign coach taking charge of a Ranji side; last season, Intikhab Alam took charge of the Punjab team. However, Maharashtra are a far less glamorous and successful team — they just about avoided relegation from the Elite division last season — so Holder’s decision becomes the more interesting.

When asked, he said the Maharashtra team would give him the challenge of working with names he’s never heard of. ‘‘The Indian domestic circuit is vast and talented. It will be a new experience for me to help take charge of a lesser-known team and help them improve.’

The Ranji team is not overflowing with talent but there are two youngsters — opener Kunal Marather and Anupam Sanklecha, who won a nationwide speedsters’ contest — who would attract his interest.

That’s the micro detail. The bigger picture lies in Holder’s statement that the post would give him an entry into Indian cricket — a fair reflection of just how lucrative this market is. Holder’s was one of the names doing the rounds in the early days of the BCCI’s search for a coach; two years later, when Chappell’s contract runs out, he could expect to be ahead of the pack to replace his fellow Australian.

Getting Holder on board is also a sign that MCA president Ajay Shirke, who took over last year, is serious about restoring cricket as the focal point. He had stated several times that the new cricket development committee was pushing for a ‘‘director’’ with the experience of functioning at the highest level. Holder — a Level III coach in Cricket Australia’s high-power academy — perfectly fits the bill.

When contacted today, Shirke refused to confirm any name. ‘‘We will try and get the best possible man for the job. We are trying to see the bigger picture out here and while I don’t think only a foreigner should be inducted, we should accept the fact that if someone is better equipped to do a particular job, there shouldn’t be any hindrance.’’

Meanwhile, it has been confirmed that current MCA coach Paras Mhambrey will now take over as the coach of the Under-19 and Under-22 teams of the state and will assist Holder in handling the senior team. Mhambrey, currently in England, was unavailable for comment.

WHO IS DARREN HOLDER?

Holder belongs to the new generation of coaches that focuses on developing mental skills and approaching the game scientifically. His coaching career has been spread across the globe, from the West Indies to the UK to Australia’s high-performance centre. He’s even conducted a Level-III coaching course at the NCA, Bangalore, and helped Aussie coach John Buchanan as performance analyst on the New Zealand tour.



Feedback?

 

[Arjun]

Holder's got a rather interesting bunch to work with. Three of the batsmen in this side have heavy averages, though they profited from playing weak teams in the second tier, but they have the ability to score big, especially Dheeraj Jadhav. Iqbal Siddique has played a Test for India and is their best bowler but often wayward, while Anupam Sanclecha had bowled a little faster than the usual medium-pace in the Scorpio Speedster event, and isn't too bad himself. The surprise package is Ranjit Khirid- a nippy medium-pacer (again, one too many) and a more-than-useful lower-middle-order batsman- in other words, a downmarket version of Agarkar- hopefully he's better built. If the transfer window is open, they can get Ajit Bhoite over from Baroda- he'd get more matches playing for Maharashtra, who need a new spinner, and he's also a good batsman.

 

[Arjun]

Where's the feedback, folks?

John Wright wants the selection committee to be more professional. He wants the zonal system to be abandoned and just the best men for the job to be picked. Frankly, I don't endorse that point fully, because theze zonal selectors look at the activity within their respective zones and know the players better, so that they can suggest their names at the committee meetings. If you went in with three selectors from Mumbai, Delhi or TN, you'll find just players from these top teams in the Indian side, even if they're mere extras who are nowhere as good as frontliners from lesser teams. The zonal selectors may not be from the same zones, though, while the final say should be with the Chairman and his deputy.

 

[Deja moo]

Where's the feedback, folks?

John Wright wants the selection committee to be more professional. He wants the zonal system to be abandoned and just the best men for the job to be picked. Frankly, I don't endorse that point fully, because theze zonal selectors look at the activity within their respective zones and know the players better, so that they can suggest their names at the committee meetings. If you went in with three selectors from Mumbai, Delhi or TN, you'll find just players from these top teams in the Indian side, even if they're mere extras who are nowhere as good as frontliners from lesser teams. The zonal selectors may not be from the same zones, though, while the final say should be with the Chairman and his deputy.

How is that any good ? The west zone guy knows about west zone players. The east zone guy knows about east zone players. But how the hell are they supposed to compare players from across zones if they have no idea about players from zones other than theirs ??? Thats one of the stupidest systems in the world.

 

[honestbharani]

I think it is a little better now than what it used to be, in the sense that the East Zone selector hardly gets to watch the East Zone matches. He is generally sent to watch the matches from other zone. And so with the others. I think it is better than the old way, but still, it can still be bettered.

 

[Arjun]

The problem here is that the net is not cast wide enough. There may be answers to chronic problems in the Indian side in 'smaller centres' or 'weaker zones', which may go unnoticed. Look at the case of the wicketkeeper-batsman. You have two from Elite sides, neither are good enough for the Indian side on batting or keeping. But look harder and you find MS Dhoni, who plays for a Tier II side- but this is not just another Tier II player. He dominates the runs tally and has catapulted his team to dizzying heights and could have got his team to the Elite league had he not missed a few matches and got more support.

In an unfancied Railways side, you have an all-rounder who's contributing on both fronts for almost ten years. Uttar Pradesh are not as glamorous as Mumbai or Delhi, but they have two fine batsmen with fantastic fielding skills, a nippy left-arm seamer with good fielding ability and a first-change seamer who can hit the ball hard- all very young. Look harder at every part of India, and you'll find players a lot better than those extras from top teams.

The zonal selectors can recommend whom they consider good enough for India, from their zones, while the chairman and his deputy can have the final say in selecting the team. That's why I would recommend zonal selectors from outside these zones, to eliminate any possibility of zonal bias, which is more or less as bad as bias towards top teams.

 

[Arjun]

The Indian side are scheduled to play seven ODI's against Sri Lanka, then five against South Africa. Brilliant chance to virtually field two squads- as a fan, I hope they don't blow this chance by fielding a full-strength side, who'll lose fitness, lose more matches and lose their confidence as either series progresses. There's a second XI banging on the doors of the selectors, and that banging gets louder for ODI selection, so they all deserve a look-in.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

The Indian side are scheduled to play seven ODI's against Sri Lanka, then five against South Africa. Brilliant chance to virtually field two squads- as a fan, I hope they don't blow this chance by fielding a full-strength side, who'll lose fitness, lose more matches and lose their confidence as either series progresses. There's a second XI banging on the doors of the selectors, and that banging gets louder for ODI selection, so they all deserve a look-in.

yes the list is a big long JP Yadav, Venugopala, Sriram,Badani,S Raina,Bhandari, VRV Singh, Bose, SS Paul, S Dhawan, Uthappa, R Ramkumar, Amit Mishra, D Jhadav