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India v New Zealand (WTC FINAL, replay-- NAHHHHH) at the Ring of Fire, Dubai, 10/31 Sunday (N)-- Match #28, Group 2
- Thread starter SillyCowCorner1
- Start date
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
As usual, there is overreaction, either from fans of other teams who hate India for various reasons or from fans of India who have to rage against every loss for some reason.
The toss has been extremely critical all tournament and I do not see it changing unless a side batting first has a bit of luck and gets away to a good start, which is when the opponent will start panicking - case in point - the IPL final. And today, India were trying way too hard to get to some big 180+ score and unfortunately even the shots they timed were either taken or fielded brilliantly on the boundary. They had let the idea of bowling second spook them to a bit of a paralysis with the bat. Block, Block, Block, Bash was what we made fun of Windies for doing. But we could not do it where it mattered (in India) and kept getting 1s and 2s and par to above par scores without going for the big hits. And now, on tracks where that tactic would be a legitimate way to play, we are trying to block, block, bash. Its pretty obvious the pressure has gotten to them today.
This side is not a side that can beat anyone anywhere. The roots of this problem go further back and far deeper than fans or admins would like to admit. When Rohit made his debut, him and Raina regularly bowled 10-15 overs every game. With Sachin having stopped bowling and Sehwag bowling lesser and lesser with age and back issues, MSD identified these two as the guys who can be the additional bowling options with Jaddu trying to play the Yusuf Pathan role. But almost every promising batsman in India since does not/could not bowl. And every promising bowler is a #11 with the bat, unless they are finger spinners. And the finger spinners cant bowl match winning spells in LO cricket, especially under lights in winter with dew all around. The idea should be to find the right balance and hopefully this thrashing serves as a wake up call to the selectors.
I would still maintain almost every side who have lost batting first could have won the same guys had they batted second. They really should not be starting the games at 6 PM UAE time, now that the Indian audience is lost anyways. Should start at 7:30 PM to make it more even for both sides and the toss becoming less decisive.
The toss has been extremely critical all tournament and I do not see it changing unless a side batting first has a bit of luck and gets away to a good start, which is when the opponent will start panicking - case in point - the IPL final. And today, India were trying way too hard to get to some big 180+ score and unfortunately even the shots they timed were either taken or fielded brilliantly on the boundary. They had let the idea of bowling second spook them to a bit of a paralysis with the bat. Block, Block, Block, Bash was what we made fun of Windies for doing. But we could not do it where it mattered (in India) and kept getting 1s and 2s and par to above par scores without going for the big hits. And now, on tracks where that tactic would be a legitimate way to play, we are trying to block, block, bash. Its pretty obvious the pressure has gotten to them today.
This side is not a side that can beat anyone anywhere. The roots of this problem go further back and far deeper than fans or admins would like to admit. When Rohit made his debut, him and Raina regularly bowled 10-15 overs every game. With Sachin having stopped bowling and Sehwag bowling lesser and lesser with age and back issues, MSD identified these two as the guys who can be the additional bowling options with Jaddu trying to play the Yusuf Pathan role. But almost every promising batsman in India since does not/could not bowl. And every promising bowler is a #11 with the bat, unless they are finger spinners. And the finger spinners cant bowl match winning spells in LO cricket, especially under lights in winter with dew all around. The idea should be to find the right balance and hopefully this thrashing serves as a wake up call to the selectors.
I would still maintain almost every side who have lost batting first could have won the same guys had they batted second. They really should not be starting the games at 6 PM UAE time, now that the Indian audience is lost anyways. Should start at 7:30 PM to make it more even for both sides and the toss becoming less decisive.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
But they do it with a smile. Or at least Kane does. Think there is proper villain energy in all of Southee, Boult, Neesham, Mitchell lol.
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Planning is all over the place. We have just 5 batsmen in squad of 15 and we play 4 of them in the XI. Granted our top order is in terrible form and is the biggest problem but those things can happen. How can you play such thin batting line ups however? Pant at #5 is disaster, he is too hit and miss to be playing that high. We used to have Yuvraj, Raina, Dhoni in some order at 5, 6 and 7 to do the rescue job. Compare that to current 5 to 7.
mackembhoy
International Regular
10/31 IPL games played in the UAE we were won by the side batting first.
Be interested to know whether day or day/night games mind.
Definitely DSC seems to be a bat second wicket.
England may not play there again till the final if they get that far.
Moss
International Captain
NZ losing to Pakistan and beating India - so far, so meme. Bring on that semifinal loss already!
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Disgraceful effort. How did we let them take 2 wickets.
Niall
International Coach
This line up from India was more suited to ODI cricket.
They need to start phasing out the likes of Rohit and Kohli and get the likes of Gaikwad,V Iyer and Paddikal in .
Pant is a test beast, but he is so-so in this format as his output in the IPL indicates. Jadeja is not good enough for international t20 while Pandya is pointless if he can't bowl.
Kumar and Shami have been patchy in the IPL also last few years so they need to be binned also.
Rahul I dunno, smashed it in the IPL, but often on roads and sadly a lot of this big knocks were match losing innings.
They need to start phasing out the likes of Rohit and Kohli and get the likes of Gaikwad,V Iyer and Paddikal in .
Pant is a test beast, but he is so-so in this format as his output in the IPL indicates. Jadeja is not good enough for international t20 while Pandya is pointless if he can't bowl.
Kumar and Shami have been patchy in the IPL also last few years so they need to be binned also.
Rahul I dunno, smashed it in the IPL, but often on roads and sadly a lot of this big knocks were match losing innings.
SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
It's just a game of cricket dude. There will be winners and losers. The media sometimes play a part in making the Indian plaers appear invincible, and that they can't lose. They are not robots programmed to deliver x number of runs or y number of wickets in a game. You have to remember that other teams have players who are just as skillful as those from India.
It's just a game.
ParwazHaiJunoon
First Class Debutant
Given how little India seemed to give a rat's, that's not bad value. Although, that game is before we play NZ - so India may have an ounce of motivation to go out and try and smash them, and advance their run rate if we happened to lose (far from out of the realms of possibility).
mohammad16
U19 Captain
There was nothing wrong with team selection or confidence. Dropping Rohit to 3 was a negative move but it didn't have a big impact on the game.
You can blame the IPL with its 60m boundaries where bowlers are not in the game for why India has struggled. All top 4 wickets today would have been sixes in most IPL matches. Indian team did not adjust to the conditions and thought they can just blast their way through other teams.
When the ground is big it opens up a lot more opportunities for 2s and 3s. 160-170 is a great score on this ground and you can do so by accumulating runs with occasional boundaries and a cameo.
The other problem with the IPL is that it rewards defensive bowlers that dart the ball in and not wicket takers. Apart from Bumrah who is a natural India lacked wicket taking options. England have Rashid, NZ have Sodhi, you need more creative slower and natural swing bowlers on these types of wickets.
Rest assured, if this same world cup was in India on flat surfaces with 60m boundaries, India and West Indies would dominate again in boring run fests, so there is nothing wrong with the current team if it plays in suitable conditions.
I am loving the fact that there is a contest between bat and ball again for a change. You cannot blame the toss when you are losing this badly.
You can blame the IPL with its 60m boundaries where bowlers are not in the game for why India has struggled. All top 4 wickets today would have been sixes in most IPL matches. Indian team did not adjust to the conditions and thought they can just blast their way through other teams.
When the ground is big it opens up a lot more opportunities for 2s and 3s. 160-170 is a great score on this ground and you can do so by accumulating runs with occasional boundaries and a cameo.
The other problem with the IPL is that it rewards defensive bowlers that dart the ball in and not wicket takers. Apart from Bumrah who is a natural India lacked wicket taking options. England have Rashid, NZ have Sodhi, you need more creative slower and natural swing bowlers on these types of wickets.
Rest assured, if this same world cup was in India on flat surfaces with 60m boundaries, India and West Indies would dominate again in boring run fests, so there is nothing wrong with the current team if it plays in suitable conditions.
I am loving the fact that there is a contest between bat and ball again for a change. You cannot blame the toss when you are losing this badly.
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straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Hadn't made much of India's record of losing to NZ in tournaments, but just finished skipping through replay of India's batting and wow they just could not score runs. That innings went nowhere. Santner and Sodhi at 3.75 and 4.25 per over and this wasn't one of the recent Bangladesh pitches that might justify that.
Still think NZ doesn't really know what the batting order should be, but that was a good innings from Mitchell. Think I rate his batting more than most, though it's still a weird thing to do to rock up to the tournament and suddenly promote him to opener. Also relevant that you usually want to open with one of your cakey players if you have a couple of them - we had that problem last T20 World Cup and Williamson was moved up to opener, which made sense. Here we have Williamson and Conway at 3 and 4, which might be too slow if we meet some high-scoring pitches.
Anyway I expected our tournament to be all-but over already but now it's onwards and upwards.
Commiserations to India fans - crap schedule to have the two most critical games up first.
Still think NZ doesn't really know what the batting order should be, but that was a good innings from Mitchell. Think I rate his batting more than most, though it's still a weird thing to do to rock up to the tournament and suddenly promote him to opener. Also relevant that you usually want to open with one of your cakey players if you have a couple of them - we had that problem last T20 World Cup and Williamson was moved up to opener, which made sense. Here we have Williamson and Conway at 3 and 4, which might be too slow if we meet some high-scoring pitches.
Anyway I expected our tournament to be all-but over already but now it's onwards and upwards.
Commiserations to India fans - crap schedule to have the two most critical games up first.