India Burnt Out?

[Jono]

It truly is ludicrous that Ishant bowls the length he does in Australia on his 3rd tour and after being playing test cricket since 2008. ****'s sake.

 

[Debris]

Debris, the factually incorrect bit Jono was referring to (I think) is that for most test players, early 30s for a bowler and early to mid 30s for batsmen is the prime. That depends on the player's career graph obviously, but generally that's the case for a well groomed career.

I was using prime as the part of their careers where they are making consistent positive contributions to the side (apologies for confusion over use of terms). Modern cricket suggests that they might be a year or two away from peak form (except Vijay and Dhawan) but there should certainly be no doubt about their place in the side.

The strange thing is that I started this as an argument that you can't use their ages as an excuse for poor form anymore and I pointed that the best batsman in the Australian side are around the same age. And, I guess, that if a player has performed badly up until now that there is no real reason to hope they will magically become much better. I will leave it to you to judge which players you think are earning their place in the side consistently. Maybe they all are.

 

[Pratters]

It truly is ludicrous that Ishant bowls the length he does in Australia on his 3rd tour and after being playing test cricket since 2008. ****'s sake.

Srinath bowled the wrong length for a large part of his career as well till he found his right length. After 75% of his career was over. They are both of a similar height. Ishant probably a bit taller. It used to annoy the hell out of me too. I wish he finds the right length as it can mean a lot more wickets.

 

[Teja.]

I was using prime as the part of their careers where they are making consistent positive contributions to the side (apologies for confusion over use of terms). Modern cricket suggests that they might be a year or two away from peak form (except Vijay and Dhawan) but there should certainly be no doubt about their place in the side.

The strange thing is that I started this as an argument that you can't use their ages as an excuse for poor form anymore and I pointed that the best batsman in the Australian side are around the same age. And, I guess, that if a player has performed badly up until now that there is no real reason to hope they will magically become much better. I will leave it to you to judge which players you think are earning their place in the side consistently. Maybe they all are.

Yeah the point we're making is that we're not using their age as an excuse for poor form, we accept that they're established players in the side. Kohli, Rahane and Pujara all average around the 45 mark as of now and are locks for the side. However, as you've acknowledged, it can be argued that they're a year or two away from their peak form (particularly Rahane and Kohli) and what is good now can with some hope and effort, get better.

 

[Debris]

I don't think any of the great Indian batsmen of the last 20 years apart from Tendulkar were doing too much better at 26 than Kohli, Pujara and Rahane are doing. Dravid was immense pretty much from the get go, but Rahane, Pujara and Kohli all average in the mid-late 40s ffs. They've had brilliant starts to their careers by any standard.

Then you really have not much to worry about. Most players continue to hold their form until at least their early 30s. You can realistically expect them to maintain this level of play for another 5 to 6 years, at least. Their form will slowly decline over time after that.

 

[Jono]

Looks like we just had a misunderstanding/miscommunication.

The general comment on the Indian team from around the tour to South Africa in December 2013 onwards has been that this is the "new" Indian team.The majority of them are young, and the majority had very little test experience, let alone foreign test experience.

They've been in winning positions in Johannesburg vs. SA, in Auckland and Wellington vs. NZ, in Nottingham vs Eng, and in Adelaide and Brisbane vs. Aust (albeit Adelaide was due to a generous declaration). They also won Lord's vs. Eng.

Whilst India have been disappointing in letting these matches slip, I think the general consensus is they have generally been competitive away from home with a young and inexperienced team. Most of the players should improve and get better with age and experience.

 

[Jono]

Yeah the point we're making is that we're not using their age as an excuse for poor form, we accept that they're established players in the side. Kohli, Rahane and Pujara all average around the 45 mark as of now and are locks for the side. However, as you've acknowledged, it can be argued that they're a year or two away from their peak form (particularly Rahane and Kohli) and what is good now can with some hope and effort, get better.

Yep, summarised well.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It truly is ludicrous that Ishant bowls the length he does in Australia on his 3rd tour and after being playing test cricket since 2008. ****'s sake.

Haha to be fair, he's improved his lines a lot. He can genuinely be called not totally rubbish now.

 

[sledger]

Talking about India in the cricket is like talking about Arsenal in the football. It's always a case of needing a few more players/saying x player(s) will come good in a few years/said players turning out to be average or crap/coming up short (and/or performing terribly) when it matters and looking for excuses.

 

[sledger]

And all this talk of Ishant Sharma is nonsense. The bloke is really not very good. And like EVERY other Indian quick we've seen over the last ten years, he will be back on the heap in no time at all.

 

[Teja.]

And all this talk of Ishant Sharma is nonsense. The bloke is really not very good. And like EVERY other Indian quick we've seen over the last ten years, he will be back on the heap in no time at all.

This is by far the popular opinion ftr.

 

[Debris]

Yeah the point we're making is that we're not using their age as an excuse for poor form, we accept that they're established players in the side. Kohli, Rahane and Pujara all average around the 45 mark as of now and are locks for the side. However, as you've acknowledged, it can be argued that they're a year or two away from their peak form (particularly Rahane and Kohli) and what is good now can with some hope and effort, get better.

The original post I responded to call them a ridiculously young team so that was what my post was about.

I actually think that India has 3 quality batsmen in Vijay, Pujara and Kohli and possibly a fourth in Rehane. I also think India is finally heading in the right direction with the fast bowling. They might be ****e but at least they are not the crappy medium pace trundlers trotted out in the past. The worrying trend for India is the decline in spin bowling.

 

[sledger]

This is by far the popular opinion ftr.

I'm aware. Some of the posts in here have suggested people are tempted to believe otherwise. Which would obviously be most unwise.

 

[Teja.]

I think the worst thing we have going right now is we had a genuinely decent bowler(s) with a few hundred wickets behind them like Kumble, Zaheer or Harbhajan to lead who at least is all there is the head and won't concede too many an over even when they're not taking wickets while also being good partnership breakers.

Now that bloke is Ishant Sharma and he legit has no idea where to bowl in what conditions.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The original post I responded to call them a ridiculously young team so that was what my post was about.

I actually think that India has 3 quality batsmen in Vijay, Pujara and Kohli and possibly a fourth in Rehane. I also think India is finally heading in the right direction with the fast bowling. They might be ****e but at least they are not the crappy medium pace trundlers trotted out in the past. The worrying trend for India is the decline in spin bowling.

Actually, Ashwin has been good this match. Not very threatening, but he's kept things tight and seems to have taken some good advice and stopped bowling rubbish carrom balls every over. Not sure about any other promising spinners, though. jadeja's a dart thrower, and Ojha's banned, so it's kind of dicey.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm aware. Some of the posts in here have suggested people are tempted to believe otherwise. Which would obviously be most unwise.

I don't see anyone calling Sharma good. Merely not total rubbish, for now.

 

[Jono]

Prefer sledger trolling than actually trying to make points but not understanding the arguments others are making.

 

[sledger]

Prefer sledger trolling than actually trying to make points but not understanding the arguments others are making.

Yeah, because I'm definitely not trolling right now. Blimey, how many cones did you pour down the hatch over Christmas?

 

[Jono]

Yeah, because I'm definitely not trolling right now. Blimey, how many cones did you pour down the hatch over Christmas?

You are the Mitch Johnson to me being Kohli. Stop throwing **** at my ass.

 

[sledger]

You are the Mitch Johnson to me being Kohli. Stop throwing **** at my ass.

Stop presenting it, you idiot.