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Imran Khan vs Shane Warne (as bowlers)

Who was the better Test bowler

  • Imran

  • Warne

Results are only viewable after voting.
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
kyear2 said:
When I first joined Cricinfo I was in awe of Imran and when I became aware of his numbers in reference to his peak, even more so and wondered why he wasn't included, as I referenced in an earlier post, in the Bradman, Sobers stratosphere. Hell why wasn't he even as highly rated as Richards or Warne?
Noticing his home and away bowling splits that didn't exist among other ATG bowlers, I asked questions and what made it even harder to explain was the fact that Pakistan pitches were to quote you "graveyards"
And yes I had heard about Pakistani umpires way before coming here, but didn't give it much credence, plus that was mostly in reference to Minadad..... but then added to that was the ball tampering stories and I wondered if there was indeed a correlation.

Despite the best coordinated, coercive, almost bullying responses that one receives when even mentioning the name of the great one, none of the contrived explanations have ever made sense to or convinced me.
The arguments that umps were bad everywhere, ok, but again, no one's splits are what his are. Ball tampering was wide spread, ok but didn't see any of the others linked to it as they were. That matches he played in over seas happened to be more high scoring, probably because some of the other teams bowled out teams for less. Yes, the pitches in India were dead, they were equally so for everyone.
Then his batting, yes way better than the other bowling specialists, but also feels inflated. There were discussions on Kallis's batting and how it doesn't match his average, similar for Sangakkara and how they didn't convert to victories. Neither did Imran's, I looked at 4 or 5, none of them led to victories and only one even led to salvaging an innings and there's a double standard there. We are allowed to breakdown and critique everyone but him, at the risk of you, Trundler and ORS aggressively jumping to his defence.
Pews and Coronis doesn't rate Viv, a question is asked, we all move on, not with this.

I have no political or racial agenda, I've never started a thread vs Imran, I've voted for Imran in multiple, but every little thing I (and anyone else for that matter) says is jumped on, blown out of proportion and goes on for pages, because heaven forbid someone has a different opinion. It's taken personal to a extent that no other player's defence is.

Also, the main difference between myself and Richie is he had a platform and knew how his selections would be seen. I think the Murali exclusion was unwarranted and petty, to name the 3 best spinners ever and to exclude him taints the exercise to a certain degree, despite how he tries to spin it at the end. He just didn't want to acknowledge his accomplishments.

I have nothing personal against any player, well kinda Sunny, but that doesn't stop me from selecting him if warranted.

This is supposed to be fun, but as Red has said, is becoming more unnecessarily contentious (or something to that effect) and why. I don't have to agree with you.

For the record I think Imran is a top 6 bowler, between him and Hadlee is the best bowling all rounder in history, so tell me please what I have against Imran
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What have the people of CW done to deserve this wall of text. Ikki would have been proud of this post. Except that you seem impervious to reason and just continue to push your agenda. Despite you being given so many arguments regarding all the supposed "issues" you mentioned about Imran you refuse to address the arguments and then continue on parroting your same old tired points that have been addressed. And OS and trundler just pointed out the inconsistency in your reasoning as the biggest problem which you never seem to address. And neither do you seem to address the substantive points of any of other people's arguments. Then you wonder why people are attacking you.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Coronis said:
lol….

So mad because Marshall wasn’t on the shortlist he MUST be pushing an agenda.

I’ve just rewatched that segment and Nicholson actually asks him outright about if short pitched bowling influenced him with regards to the Windies bowlers and he states he has no problem with it (aside from playing it himself - as a compulsive hooker) its always been part of the game since he was playing it - specifically mentioning Lindwall and Miller and saying every team had bowlers bowling bouncers at that time.

Amongst keepers he mentions Evans, Knott and Dujon and again says it was minute differences between such players as to making it onto his shortlist.
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As I've said from the begining, the most egregious omission was Murali and I've explained why. But this is how it goes in CW, someone says something against someone from your country and you respond with something aimed at someone from yours.

I say something about Imran, they bring up something completely unrelated about Viv, Marshall or Sobers.

In any event, as he disclaimed, it wasn't a best of team, and even if it was he's entitled to name who he wants. Just think it was petty to leave out Murali from a top 3 list. The rest of it was transparent, so didn't bother me at all.
 
CricAddict

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
kyear2 said:
As I've said from the begining, the most egregious omission was Murali and I've explained why. But this is how it goes in CW, someone says something against someone from your country and you respond with something aimed at someone from yours.

I say something about Imran, they bring up something completely unrelated about Viv, Marshall or Sobers.
Click to expand...
Nah. I don't think it is a country issue in CW. Almost all cwers are above that. They argue for or against players either in their own country or a different country. This is a non-factor.

Issue is, people have entrenched opinions here over decades of discussions and formed concrete opinions in their minds on where each player rank. And this is based on huge cricket following wisdom from experienced cwers. So it is going to be very difficult to change any of those opinions.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
smash84 said:
What have the people of CW done to deserve this wall of text. Ikki would have been proud of this post. Except that you seem impervious to reason and just continue to push your agenda. Despite you being given so many arguments regarding all the supposed "issues" you mentioned about Imran you refuse to address the arguments and then continue on parroting your same old tired points that have been addressed. And OS and trundler just pointed out the inconsistency in your reasoning as the biggest problem which you never seem to address. And neither do you seem to address the substantive points of any of other people's arguments. Then you wonder why people are attacking you.
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People aren't attacking me, the 3 of you are.

The last 10 page saga started not because is said some about Imran, I posted a list where I had him lower than Trundler thought I should and he proceeded to declare how it was the the worst list produced and how I was literally the only person who held such views that made no sense. And note, Imran was listed.
Apparently one isn't allowed to past a top 10 list without him in the top 3, and you'll really don't see anything wrong with that?
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
CricAddict said:
Nah. I don't think it is a country issue in CW. Almost all cwers are above that. They argue for or against players either in their own country or a different country. This is a non-factor.

Issue is, people have entrenched opinions here over decades of discussions and formed concrete opinions in their minds on where each player rank. And this is based on huge cricket following wisdom from experienced cwers. So it is going to be very difficult to change any of those opinions.
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But dude, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, they are trying to change mine for some reason.
Dude, I posted a list.

The funny thing is that the only agenda I have here is to get a greater appreciation and consideration for slip fielding., Which isn't catching on btw
But hey if the batmen so their job, the tail becomes less important. If the bowlers do their job, the cordon becomes more important. But that's for another thread. 😀
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
kyear2 said:
People aren't attacking me, the 3 of you are.

The last 10 page saga started not because is said some about Imran, I posted a list where I had him lower than Trundler thought I should and he proceeded to declare how it was the the worst list produced and how I was literally the only person who held such views that made no sense. And note, Imran was listed.
Apparently one isn't allowed to past a top 10 list without him in the top 3, and you'll really don't see anything wrong with that?
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I wasn't attacking you at all. I know enough of your posting history to know better.

I only jumped in when people started accusing benaud of malicious intent (you) and casual racism (some other poster, was it asshole?) because he refused to include the WI Pacers or Murali in his favorite 11. Which is ludicrous, even by your usual standards.
 
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