ICC ranks Hair second best

[C_C]

the incidence of discrimination on the sub-continent is far, far greater than it is in Oz

wiped out culture? enslaved? - god u guys are ignorant

Yes. Wiped out culture-almost nearly.
Genocide.
Enslaved. Took their kids to 'civilise them better'.
Sorry but your nation's history even up to the last 20-30 years is despicable.
Subcontinent has more discrimination but far more ethnic and multicultural tolerance than your nation does. Besides, wait atleast until all the generation of your aborigines molesters are dead before you go exonerating your nation. Y'er barely out on parole and you go on acting like you've never done anything wrong ( metaphorically- at a national/cultural level).
How bloody typical of the closet supremists.

 

[social]

You miss the point. The point is, the type of discrimination you got going affects everybody from every point on this planet- hence their opinions and commentary on this is far more valid - they not only understand the issues significantly better than you do in your caste example (and dont even pretend to that you do-i'll rat you out in two seconds) but it affects them directly. Which is why i think its laughable that you try to counter racism emmanating from your country from casteism. I am sorry but racism is far more enveloping and far more rigid in its structure, thus far more damaging.One can hide one's caste. One cant hide one's race.



Thats what you WANT to believe. But historically AND currently, its patently untrue. Make no mistake - your nation is one of the worst in history when it comes to discrimination- subcontinent has had discrimination in its history for a long period but we've also have had universal sufferage for longer than entire europe and european daughter cultures combined. If you seek to dispute this, i'll have to educate you on subcontinental history then.



I realise that you live in a baby nation historically- but you guys were discriminating carte blanche againt the aboriginies even up to the 50s and 60s. Ie, around the time you were born. Hardly ancient history, even by the standards of a baby nation.



What evidence ? Point out how many non-white people are professionally employed in international or first class or even club cricket/aussie rules/footy etc etc. in your nation.
You may not like this, but it is a fact that out of all nations allowing permanent immigration through naturalisation process, Australian government and sporting scene is the least representational of its ethnic diversity.



That is a deliberate lie - notice i've never supported Shoaib in his doping scandal. Everyone is responsible for their actions- unfortunately, not a concept that was enshrined by your nation or its cricketing bodies until very very recently - even if its merely at a cosmetic value today. You on the other hand, seek to justify the laughable behaviour and irrepsonsible decisions of Hair simply because he is aussie and he is white.





I did. And i repeat - there is no credible, verifiable and scientific process in evaluating umpires. It is done solely on the basis of opinions and thus is irrelevant.Or atleast, its no more relevant than 'miss australia = best aussie chick around' idea.

There really is no point continuing

I dont know what's more embarrassing - your ignorance or the fact that you seem so proud to advertise the fact

BTW, if you knew anything at all about Australia, which you plainly dont, you would realise that about the last person on earth any of us have an interest in defending is an umpire - particularly one that is an English citizen Jackass

 

[Anil]

the incidence of discrimination on the sub-continent is far, far greater than it is in Oz

wiped out culture? enslaved? - god u guys are ignorant

no point discussing anything rationally with you, was just making a point...whether you agree with it or not, i know what i am talking about....

 

[Dasa]

the incidence of discrimination on the sub-continent is far, far greater than it is in Oz

wiped out culture? enslaved? - god u guys are ignorant

Wait a sec. You're qualified to comment on the subcontinent, but people from the subcontinent aren't qualified to comment on Australia? Couldn't possibly be double standards, could it? Typical of your attitude really.

 

[social]

Wait a sec. You're qualified to comment on the subcontinent, but people from the subcontinent aren't qualified to comment on Australia? Couldn't possibly be double standards, could it? Typical of your attitude really.

Sorry but Ive been to the sub-continent many, many times and have therefore been witness to the type of discrimination of which I speak

C_C has never been to Australia and expressly states that he has no desire ever to do so.

He is obviously ignorant to the fact that Australia has changed radically in the past 50 years and would lump us with North Korea where human rights abuses are concerned without having a shred of evidence to do so.

Furthermore, he makes things up to support his assertions and, in my experience, bases his judgement on the colour of someone's skin

 

[adharcric]

Sorry but Ive been to the sub-continent many, many times and have therefore been witness to the type of discrimination of which I speak

You're a victim of the caste system?

 

[adharcric]

How the hell did caste come into the picture?

social -- stop pretending like Australia's perfect and innocent and nothing bad ever happens there, and don't try to refute that by pointing out the caste system - it's irrelevant

We all know what the caste system is about and anyone sensible accepts that it's ****ed up. So how does that have any bearing on problems in Australia? I don't even know what you guys are talking about, but the fact that caste came into the picture is absurd.

What was this thread about again? Darrell Hair? Are you seriously still trying to defend him and claim that he's simply a victim of the subcontinental victims of "fake racism"?

 

[C_C]

Sorry but Ive been to the sub-continent many, many times and have therefore been witness to the type of discrimination of which I speak

Sorry but thats hogwash.
To even experience discrimination in the subcontinent one has to live there for a long time- tourists for eg. dont get discriminated against and like i said - dont even pretend to understand the culture from a few piddly visits- you dont and i can easily rat you out on that.

C_C has never been to Australia and expressly states that he has no desire ever to do so.

Fortunately for me, the type of discrimination your country specialises in requires no cultural understanding - it is simple skin color stuff- very widely documented and commented upon - by the UN as well.

He is obviously ignorant to the fact that Australia has changed radically in the past 50 years

20 maybe 25 years. Sorry but 50 years is stretching it. 50 years ago (in the 1950s) you folks were still discriminating against the aborigines harsh.

Furthermore, he makes things up to support his assertions and, in my experience, bases his judgement on the colour of someone's skin

I think given the precedence of your behaviour, that describes you to a T. Dont confuse between the two of us.

 

[C_C]

How the hell did caste come into the picture?

social -- stop pretending like Australia's perfect and innocent and nothing bad ever happens there, and don't try to refute that by pointing out the caste system - it's relevant

We all know what the caste system is about and anyone sensible accepts that it's ****ed up. So how does that have any bearing on problems in Australia? I don't even know what you guys are talking about, but the fact that caste came into the picture is absurd.

What was this thread about again?

His laughable perspective (and highly ignorant) is that apparently all countries have equally despicable and entrenched history of discrimination and therefore no one should talk about anything but their own countries. Despite popular opinion, personal experiences of countless others and even UN reports, Social tends to think that his country is one of the better ones in terms of intercultural/interracial interactions, when the truth is anything but.

 

[adharcric]

C_C has never been to Australia and expressly states that he has no desire ever to do so.

He is obviously ignorant to the fact that Australia has changed radically in the past 50 years and would lump us with North Korea where human rights abuses are concerned without having a shred of evidence to do so.

Look mate, I personally don't know much about Australia so I won't make claims. I do have friends and family who used to live in Australia and they were critical of the racism there. I don't know how much racism there is, but clearly it's not just C_C pulling stories out of his ass.

You do have a point though that people shouldn't make claims if they are not aware of the reality.

 

[Dasa]

Sorry but Ive been to the sub-continent many, many times and have therefore been witness to the type of discrimination of which I speak

C_C has never been to Australia and expressly states that he has no desire ever to do so.

He is obviously ignorant to the fact that Australia has changed radically in the past 50 years and would lump us with North Korea where human rights abuses are concerned without having a shred of evidence to do so.

Furthermore, he makes things up to support his assertions and, in my experience, bases his judgement on the colour of someone's skin

I've lived in both the subcontinent and Australia. Am I allowed to comment? Considering I don't disagree with much of what C_C has said, I'm guessing I'm not.
Also, you're kidding yourself if you think that the last 50 years of Australian history are any sort of good example. In my experience, you're the one who bases your judgement solely on the cultural background of someone. Your views and posts suggest that you think that views from subcontinent are somehow inherently inferior to views from the regions you consider acceptable and that any views from the subcontinent can automatically be dismissed.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Besides, you'd be surprised at how many retards are closer to our buddy Social in mentality than the Slow_loves of the world.

Unfair.

Agreed. Calling members retards isn't on.

What was this thread about again? Darrell Hair? Are you seriously still trying to defend him and claim that he's simply a victim of the subcontinental victims of "fake racism"?

There isn't anything inherently wrong with believing that the punishment handed to Hair was incorrect.

Despite social maybe spouting what may be seen as "hypocritical" views at times, this does not break forum rules. However, what's going on can definitely be termed as damaging forum atmosphere, and this thread needs to be kept on a short leash.

What evidence ? Point out how many non-white people are professionally employed in international or first class or even club cricket/aussie rules/footy etc etc. in your nation.

This is pretty complicated, but to simplify it [and maybe a little "crudely" in doing so] we're already seeing a reasonable number of Italian backgrounded AFL footballers, half our soccer side is probably overseas qualified, as well as providing Croatia with 3 players *shakes fist*, each year we see more sub-continent cricketers playing underage cricket (although I could write a thesis on this issue), and from an AFL perspective, first and often second generation Australians are reluctant to play the game as they are pushed by their parents to play sports which they are more familiar with.

Also, how was universal suffrage employed in the sub-continent pre-1900s, Joy? In a less formalized manner than these days?

 

[Dasa]

Also, how was universal suffrage employed in the sub-continent pre-1900s, Joy? In a less formalized manner than these days?

How could there be universal suffrage in the subcontinent under colonial rule?

 

[vic_orthdox]

How could there be universal suffrage in the subcontinent under colonial rule?

Haha, that's a good point. It's 4:45pm Friday arvo, gimme a break.

I'm guessing then C_C's pointing out that universal suffrage didn't really occur until the aboriginals got the vote.

BTW, was replying to this quote, and just trying to understand how it works.

subcontinent has had discrimination in its history for a long period but we've also have had universal sufferage for longer than entire europe and european daughter cultures combined. If you seek to dispute this, i'll have to educate you on subcontinental history then.

 

[Dasa]

BTW, was replying to this quote, and just trying to understand how it works.

Not sure what he's talking about there, but I'm not particularly well-versed in subcontinental history either.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Not sure what he's talking about there, but I'm not particularly well-versed in subcontinental history either.

Unless we're talking about C_C's universal suffrage where you have to 50+ to vote...

 

[social]

How the hell did caste come into the picture?

social -- stop pretending like Australia's perfect and innocent and nothing bad ever happens there, and don't try to refute that by pointing out the caste system - it's irrelevant

We all know what the caste system is about and anyone sensible accepts that it's ****ed up. So how does that have any bearing on problems in Australia? I don't even know what you guys are talking about, but the fact that caste came into the picture is absurd.

What was this thread about again? Darrell Hair? Are you seriously still trying to defend him and claim that he's simply a victim of the subcontinental victims of "fake racism"?

Background is simple

C_C enjoys painting OZ as font of all evil, most notably racism

In a conversation some time ago, he was on his usual rant whilst painting the sub-content as some paradigm of virtue

I pointed out that racism is simply a form of discrimination.

Discrimination happens every day between members of different castes on sub-continent

In other words, pottle kettle black

As for Australia, never defended our record re the Aborigines

However, to suggest, in 2006, we are any worse than virtually every country on the planet is crap Im afraid

 

[C_C]

Also, how was universal suffrage employed in the sub-continent pre-1900s, Joy? In a less formalized manner than these days?

Ancient ancient times my friend.
Some of the earliest democracies in the world (certainly older than the Greek democracy) were in the subcontinent- and that too, not just a democracy of the proleteriat as was the case with Greece or Rome.

This is pretty complicated, but to simplify it [and maybe a little "crudely" in doing so] we're already seeing a reasonable number of Italian backgrounded AFL footballers, half our soccer side is probably overseas qualified, as well as providing Croatia with 3 players *shakes fist*, each year we see more sub-continent cricketers playing underage cricket (although I could write a thesis on this issue), and from an AFL perspective, first and often second generation Australians are reluctant to play the game as they are pushed by their parents to play sports which they are more familiar with.

Croats are white too, are they not ? Or is the concept of 'white' in Aussie culture similar to the Nazi model of 'whites' (ie, Germanic-Celtic-Scandinavians with rest of europe being lesser) ? My point is, given Australia is one of the more multicultural societies in the world ( i can only think of Canada, US, UK, India, France, Holland,China and NZ as similarly or more multicultural), how is it that the entire spectrum of sporting excellence in Australia almost exclusively white ? How is it that Symonds is one of the first 'part black' players at any level of Aussie sports, how is it that Gillespie- the only 'aboriginal' cricket player of his generation in OZ more white than Aboriginal ? There are countless stories from colored immigrants pointing towards discrimination even at primary school level active to this day in sporting spheres. Are they all invalid or just 'sour grapes' ? Social would certainly like us to believe so in his land of denial.

 

[social]

Sorry but thats hogwash.
To even experience discrimination in the subcontinent one has to live there for a long time- tourists for eg. dont get discriminated against and like i said - dont even pretend to understand the culture from a few piddly visits- you dont and i can easily rat you out on that.



Fortunately for me, the type of discrimination your country specialises in requires no cultural understanding - it is simple skin color stuff- very widely documented and commented upon - by the UN as well.



20 maybe 25 years. Sorry but 50 years is stretching it. 50 years ago (in the 1950s) you folks were still discriminating against the aborigines harsh.



I think given the precedence of your behaviour, that describes you to a T. Dont confuse between the two of us.

C_C, I witnessed discrimination on Day One in Karachi

Dont make it sound like some clandestine ritual that only the initiated can interpret

In 1961, sorry 45 years ago, Aborigines had no vote, no right to citizenship, no right to social security, some lived on missions, no vote, no land rights etc.

All that changed by 1967

So call it 40 years

BTW, UN made comments in late 80s - gee world hasnt changed much since then

 

[C_C]

C_C enjoys painting OZ as font of all evil, most notably racism

Because..uhh..it IS one of the 'front' of racism on a systematic scale in the world ? The UN most certainly thinks so and your nation's international reputation most certainly reflects that.

In a conversation some time ago, he was on his usual rant whilst painting the sub-content as some paradigm of virtue

Most of the philosophies and history of the subcontinent at a humanitarian level are a few lightyears ahead of European history and philosophy for thousands of years. Not to mention, many, if not most of the evils affecting the subcontinent were revived by the colonial Europeans ( casteism being one of the primary ones- the divide and rule strategy).
These arnt opinions-these are facts that are historically verifiable.

I pointed out that racism is simply a form of discrimination.

Simply ?
No- it is the worst form of any discrimination simply because there is no way of escaping it, counterbalancing it and it isnt based on ideological beleifs. Caste can be hidden, religion and dogma can be covered up - race cannot be. Which is why racism has universally been seen as the lowest form of human interactions. I'd rather live in a world of casteism than racism or a world with capitalism than racism. And yes, capitalism is a form of discrimination too. I can quote you volumes upon volumes of work, some from nobel prize winning economists on this.

Discrimination happens every day between members of different castes on sub-continent

Definately not on a state level and there have been active efforts- not just recorded speeches like your government- to root out the problem. As i say, proof is in the pudding. There has been 'low caste' presidents, prime ministers, cabinet ministers and even field marshalls. How many non-whites have your country had in any level of national governance and security ? Sorry but your nation, much like the rest of the western world, is more concerned about maintaining and selling a false image than letting reality speak for itself.
So come back to me when you've had a few more colored people calling the shots if you even wanna play the 'same level ground' angle in this- it isnt from where the facts show us.

However, to suggest, in 2006, we are any worse than virtually every country on the planet is crap Im afraid

As i said, yer nation's barely out on parole- its gonna be a few generation(s) of decent conduct before you can convince anyone who's half informed that your nation isnt a nation of systematic discrimination and racism. Your nation, a nation who's 90% of history is based on systematic genocide, has to certainly do far more for far longer than just saying 'lookie we changed the laws- we are all good blokes- stop slandering our nation'.
Hell, its just recently that your government has even bothered apologising for its past crimes, let alone address the social scene resulting from that.
Oh btw, the UN certainly seems to think that your nation's record is one of the worst in the world. Take it up with them !