ICC ranks Hair second best

[C_C]

A more constructive approach would be to discuss the position of the umpire and match referee as it stands and ramifications of the ICC's stance

Position of umpires : They are accountable for their decisions.
Position of match refs : nothing more than cosmetic.

Either way, umpires need to realise that they are a sideshow to the game and they will get further and further obsolete as technology takes over.
They dont have to like it- as long as they can accept it. They need to realise that they are expendable, as are the judges in any game

 

[Dasa]

Some of the furore surrounding these events is laughable. Big bad Asia is taking over our sport. Boohoo.

 

[social]

Position of umpires : They are accountable for their decisions.
Position of match refs : nothing more than cosmetic.

Either way, umpires need to realise that they are a sideshow to the game and they will get further and further obsolete as technology takes over.
They dont have to like it- as long as they can accept it. They need to realise that they are expendable, as are the judges in any game

Of course they're accountable but one of the potential ramifications of this recent episode is that umpires wont make decisions on controversial issues because they cant be confident that they'll be judged purely on their interpretation of the rule book.

 

[C_C]

Of course they're accountable but one of the potential ramifications of this recent episode is that umpires wont make decisions on controversial issues because they cant be confident that they'll be judged purely on their interpretation of the rule book.

Yup.
Which is a good thing.

 

[social]

Yup.
Which is a good thing.

So it's a good thing when they have to take the political climate into account before making a decision?

 

[C_C]

So it's a good thing when they have to take the political climate into account before making a decision?

Its a good thing that they arnt making those decisions in the first place.
Chucking/tampering etc. are career-altering decisions, something that cannot be and should not be taken on the heat of the moment merely based on 'personal interpretation of the law'. It is something where you must demonstrate credible evidence and have your 'interpretations' scrutinised for it affects the career of an individual.
Glad that umpires have been neutred in this regard.

 

[social]

Its a good thing that they arnt making those decisions in the first place.
Chucking/tampering etc. are career-altering decisions, something that cannot be and should not be taken on the heat of the moment merely based on 'personal interpretation of the law'. It is something where you must demonstrate credible evidence and have your 'interpretations' scrutinised for it affects the career of an individual.
Glad that umpires have been neutred in this regard.

Havent been neutered - ball tampering law is still exactly the same and doesnt require any more evidence than it did before the Oval.

They should change the law because it is now effectively defunct

As for career altering, didnt do Mike Atherton any harm

 

[C_C]

Havent been neutered - ball tampering law is still exactly the same and doesnt require any more evidence than it did before the Oval.

They should change the law because it is now effectively defunct

As for career altering, didnt do Mike Atherton any harm

They are effectively neutered- for no one is gonna be daft enough to try something inexplicably arrogant and unjustified as Hair did anymore. Which is a good thing.

 

[social]

They are effectively neutered- for no one is gonna be daft enough to try something inexplicably arrogant and unjustified as Hair did anymore. Which is a good thing.

Umpires correctly apply the rule book every day - they'll just ignore this rule

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Some of the furore surrounding these events is laughable. Big bad Asia is taking over our sport. Boohoo.

Why is the balance of power and accompanying benefits lying with the Asian bloc any better than it lying with the MCC in England? I can't really understand how someone can decry the past of the game as being biased against certain nations and see no issue with those same nations being a potential dominant force currently and in the future.

 

[social]

Why is the balance of power and accompanying benefits lying with the Asian bloc any better than it lying with the MCC in England? I can't really understand how someone can decry the past of the game as being biased against certain nations and see no issue with those same nations being a potential dominant force currently and in the future.

To be fair, I havent done any research into whether the grievances of the sub-continent against previous administration were justifiable - chances are that some were and some weren't

Current voting block is off to a dodgy start (awarding of 2011 WC to sub-continent, Hair's removal, etc).

However,chances are that biased decisions will have negligible impact upon game - it's still around after all and there's money in the game today than ever more.

 

[C_C]

Current voting block is off to a dodgy start (awarding of 2011 WC to sub-continent, Hair's removal, etc).

Nothing dodgy about either.
Hair got what he deserved and 2011 World cup is justified- the subcontinent easily has the most cricket fans and therefore should get the world cup more frequently than any other region.

 

[C_C]

Umpires correctly apply the rule book every day - they'll just ignore this rule

If they ignore it, they'll just get chopped like Hair did.
I am sorry but its daft for a career-altering/affecting decision (such as chucking/cheating etc) to be made by the on-field umpire without a proper and justifiable process.

 

[social]

If they ignore it, they'll just get chopped like Hair did.
I am sorry but its daft for a career-altering/affecting decision (such as chucking/cheating etc) to be made by the on-field umpire without a proper and justifiable process.

They're the rules!

The ICC will no doubt change the ball-tampering and leave it to the match referee.

In the meantime, should the ball start swinging like a boomerang and the course of the match be changed because the umpire won't sanction the guilty party because of fear of reprisal, who really gets hurt?

 

[C_C]

In the meantime, should the ball start swinging like a boomerang and the course of the match be changed because the umpire won't sanction the guilty party because of fear of reprisal, who really gets hurt?

He has to categorically see tampering on the ball and/or by the players or he must attribute it to changing pitch conditions- which i am sure you'r aware have affected matches quite suddenly. Bottomline is he has to produce evidence to back up his call - something that Hair failed to do.

As i said, its daft to consider a potential career-ending/career altering verdict without any due process simply on the opinion of one man (or two men atmost). Leaves open abuse of power questions like Hair did.

 

[social]

He has to categorically see tampering on the ball and/or by the players or he must attribute it to changing pitch conditions- which i am sure you'r aware have affected matches quite suddenly. Bottomline is he has to produce evidence to back up his call - something that Hair failed to do.

As i said, its daft to consider a potential career-ending/career altering verdict without any due process simply on the opinion of one man (or two men atmost). Leaves open abuse of power questions like Hair did.

Nope

Under current rules, doesnt doesnt have to witness players do any such thing nor does it need to be caught on video

Judgement call as to changing conditions of ball, pure and simple

As for career altering, still havent addressed Atherton situation - caught on tape, left lighter in pocket, zero effect on career

Contrast that to a situation where a batsman is fighting for his spot.

Umpire suspects ball tampering but in light of recent events, stays mum.

Ball suddenly starts hooping around (and it does happen that quickly), batsman is dismissed and career subsequently terminated

Career altering enough for you

 

[C_C]

Nope

Under current rules, doesnt doesnt have to witness players do any such thing nor does it need to be caught on video

Well the current rules need to be changed then.

Judgement call as to changing conditions of ball, pure and simple

Not sufficient enough.

As for career altering, still havent addressed Atherton situation - caught on tape, left lighter in pocket, zero effect on career

Hence, i said 'potentially'.

Contrast that to a situation where a batsman is fighting for his spot.

Umpire suspects ball tampering but in light of recent events, stays mum.

Ball suddenly starts hooping around (and it does happen that quickly), batsman is dismissed and career subsequently terminated

Career altering enough for you

Largely irrelevant - career altering decisions etc. is largely done to protect a player from slander/calls of being a cheat etc etc. without due cause. If you are a newbie and you get owned by crazy swing- well, tough beans.

 

[marc71178]

Hair got what he deserved and 2011 World cup is justified- the subcontinent easily has the most cricket fans and therefore should get the world cup more frequently than any other region.

But should they also bend over backwards to make it a done deal though?

 

[social]

Well the current rules need to be changed then.



Not sufficient enough.



Hence, i said 'potentially'.



Largely irrelevant - career altering decisions etc. is largely done to protect a player from slander/calls of being a cheat etc etc. without due cause. If you are a newbie and you get owned by crazy swing- well, tough beans.

That's why the hearing re Hair was such a farce - under the rules, he was absolutely correct and the fact that he didnt point the finger at a particular player or that the cameras didnt pick it up was totally irrelevant.

As for career altering, surely the plethoras of warnings and Afridi's admission are just as damning.

Personally, short of defacing a ball with a bottle top or smearing sun-screen on the ball, I say let it happen.

If authorities are going to produce flat track after flat track, then surely the bowlers should be given some leaway.

I remember seeing Bishen Bedi rub a new ball on the ground so that his spinners could grip it better.No-one complained then and they shouldnt now.

 

[Dasa]

Why is the balance of power and accompanying benefits lying with the Asian bloc any better than it lying with the MCC in England? I can't really understand how someone can decry the past of the game as being biased against certain nations and see no issue with those same nations being a potential dominant force currently and in the future.

I never said it was any better. However, I find it very amusing that so many people just can't take that Asia actually has some power now. It's as if these people are saying - it was alright when we were powerful, but god forbid they become powerful.