I dont like Bazball

[Spark]

England for the last ten years has produced a generational stream of incredibly talented power hitters and absolute ****-all by way of "traditional" grafting Test batsmen. It's a wonder that it took them so long (and I kept panning them for it) to finally decide to go all-in on the former as the much better route to success. Talent, in the end, is the most important determinant of results.

 

[CricAddict]

Tbf I respect your opinion. I don't think the comparison carries though. The Stokes/McCullum approach is about aggressive cricket with bat and ball. It's only resulted in a huuuuuuge innings total in this game. it's had us chase some tricky targets and win games that look like meandering to a draw. Wickets have tumbled in all of the Stokes games, even this one had 37 whereas this wicket would classically have seen about 18 wickets across four dull af innings.

Scoring fast in Tests doesn't have the same ends as it does in limited overs. It makes results more likely and conversely makes huge totals less likely. The balance between bat and ball is arguably aided by this approach.

Tbf I respect your opinion. I don't think the comparison carries though. The Stokes/McCullum approach is about aggressive cricket with bat and ball. It's only resulted in a huuuuuuge innings total in this game. it's had us chase some tricky targets and win games that look like meandering to a draw. Wickets have tumbled in all of the Stokes games, even this one had 37 whereas this wicket would classically have seen about 18 wickets across four dull af innings.

Scoring fast in Tests doesn't have the same ends as it does in limited overs. It makes results more likely and conversely makes huge totals less likely. The balance between bat and ball is arguably aided by this approach.

It is probably the tradition gatekeeper of me speaking but I didn't like the 6rpo+ hitting, just as I didn't like it in ODIs. But if it is good for the game and the development of it, then happy about it.

And I get your logic on how this can make huge total less likely. It is good in that way, I agree.

 

[CricAddict]

Big assumption here.

It is not. We saw the trend in ODIs once England adopted the hitting approach and then, all teams followed suit. If it is a successful methodology, why do you think other teams will not do it?

 

[honestbharani]

all teams followed suit.

Exhibit A to the contrary

 

[Socerer 01]

Yeah which team even followed it?

only one I can even think of that tried to replicate their strategy was SL and they predictably gave up after realising they did not have the resources for it

calling England’s strategy of hitting in odis just aiming for 350 is a gross simplification of all the parts in it which none of the other teams have even come close to attempting to do

 

[CricAddict]

Yeah which team even followed it?

only one I can even think of that tried to replicate their strategy was SL and they predictably gave up after realising they did not have the resources for it

calling England’s strategy of hitting in odis just aiming for 350 is a gross simplification of all the parts in it which none of the other teams have even come close to attempting to do

I am obviously not saying that it is simple. Every team obviously strategizes before employing a plan. I am just saying that every other team will try to follow it. We will see flat pitches and aggressive hitting more and more from other teams too now that England are doing it successfully. I may be derided for this thought right now but I am confident of this getting true in the near future.

 

[Spark]

Tbf the question of whether curators will get away with preparing horribly lifeless decks even more than they already do is a very legitimate one. It's probably just a bit premature to raise that on the back of one of the most bowler-friendly eras in decades over the last five or six years.

 

[honestbharani]

I dont think India are gonna give flat tracks for visiting teams because England bazball it. If anything, it would make most teams prepare more bowler friendly wickets. Rambo is just a dumbo.

 

[Spark]

I dont think India are gonna give flat tracks for visiting teams because England bazball it. If anything, it would make most teams prepare more bowler friendly wickets. Rambo is just a dumbo.

Yeah, that would be my suspicion too. But I could definitely see less scrupulous fanboys - a category which includes some administrators - going "see actually the pitch was fine!" ignoring that it literally took a side scoring at 6-7rpo for two innings of a Test match to make it even vaguely plausible to get a result.

 

[Socerer 01]

I am obviously not saying that it is simple. Every team obviously strategizes before employing a plan. I am just saying that every other team will try to follow it. We will see flat pitches and aggressive hitting more and more from other teams too now that England are doing it successfully. I may be derided for this thought right now but I am confident of this getting true in the near future.

Yet no team has got close to playing like England in odis. Not even the side that they based their model of. Even they have moved to playing in more conventional ways. no team is going to follow England in tests when they still play conventional batsmen as main players

 

[Socerer 01]

I dont think India are gonna give flat tracks for visiting teams because England bazball it. If anything, it would make most teams prepare more bowler friendly wickets. Rambo is just a dumbo.

Indian pitches have been more balanced recently. You can play Bazball on it but the pitch does tend to break down more in the last 2 days

and if England play here with this approach we will just serve them the Ahmedabad pitches again without any doubt

 

[TheJediBrah]

It is not. We saw the trend in ODIs once England adopted the hitting approach and then, all teams followed suit. If it is a successful methodology, why do you think other teams will not do it?

How do you figure this? Other teams aren't going any more aggressively than they were pre-2015

If anything I think it's actually slowed down a bit in most places that aren't England due to less flat ODI wickets

 

[Spark]

England didn't start the trend of enormous ODI scores anyway. The 2015 WC in Aus (less so the NZ games) did that, England were just the ones who reacted most demonstrably to the obvious trend of huge scores in that game.

No one else has anywhere near the preponderance of power hitting talent that England does, so of course they're going to be way in front in being able to play this way. It's up to everyone else to find ways to curtail that.

 

[Socerer 01]

England have most of their best bowlers good enough to be bowling all rounders or at least bat to a level which helps them pull off what they do. They also have a mentality throughout their domestic system that gets them prioritizing the team score ahead of their own individual record and rewarding them for it which allows batsmen to play as freely and aggressively as they do. These are not changes that can be implemented immediately and will need time and talent. England also were in the situation of being rock bottom and needing to adapt to catch up to the times which no other team right now is in so no one will make such drastic changes

 

[ankitj]

It is probably the tradition gatekeeper of me speaking but I didn't like the 6rpo+ hitting, just as I didn't like it in ODIs. But if it is good for the game and the development of it, then happy about it.

And I get your logic on how this can make huge total less likely. It is good in that way, I agree.

If you are tradition gatekeeper y u no hate IPL?

 

[CricAddict]

If you are tradition gatekeeper y u no hate IPL?

Because I love playing fantasy league and IPL is fun that way. No other reason

 

[h_hurricane]

A big thumbs up from me for Bazball, when it comes off like this. If other teams are good enough to overcome it, or even try to do it themselves, let them do it. It will only make the game more interesting. There have been tons of boring draws in the history of test cricket(not talking about the edge of the seat stalemates btw), glad that the last game wasn't one.

And England only batted under 140 overs in the last match, when Pakistan batted around 260. And yet outscored them and forced a result. That is quality.

 

[Ashes81]

There's alot of nonsense talked about Bazball - even the term itself is ridiculous.

We haven't invented the wheel here, and nobody in the England set up is claiming we have. The media love a tag line and Bazball fits perfectly.

But what McCullum and Stokes have been able to do is change the narrative of the test team. Last winters Ashes defeat, and we've had some horror shows, was a new low even for us. It was horrific.

We're not the best team in the world but we're in so much of a better place than we were and that's down to a change in mental approach.

The declaration in this test was astonishing. I've been watching test cricket since the 1970s and I've never seen an England captain make such a declaration.

Away from home in the SC in the 1st test of a 3 match series, no other England captain I've seen, and I've seen plenty, would have made that call.

If it had gone wrong, previously the media would have held the captain out to dry, they would have struggled to survive.

But not now. Yes there would have been some criticism but Stokes and McCullum have changed the landscape for English test cricket - its OK to lose if you're trying to win - and that's a seismic change in English cricket and one which I believe which reap huge rewards.

For too long, English cricket was paralysed by the fear of failure. Paralysed that the media would crucify and destroy the individuals responsible.

We've changed that culture in the white ball team and McCullum and Stokes are doing the same for the test team.

I'm not saying that we'll rule the test match scene, we won't, but we'll be a damn site harder to beat than we have been.

 

[chris.hinton]

There I said it.

I dont even mind England's win tommorow heck they deserve it. Full marks to them for making a game out if it and it will be a tight slap on Ramiz and Babar face as their tactics with the pitch back fire on them.

But i am late 30's old school fan i want my tests run rate to stay betwen 2-4 rpo, occasional big hitting innings in tests are fine but i dont want tests to turn in to white ball slogging fests.

I am afraid this could be future of test cricket and i am not liking it.

Dry your eyes mate and get used to it. It will be around for a while

 

[Socerer 01]

There's alot of nonsense talked about Bazball - even the term itself is ridiculous.

We haven't invented the wheel here, and nobody in the England set up is claiming we have. The media love a tag line and Bazball fits perfectly.

But what McCullum and Stokes have been able to do is change the narrative of the test team. Last winters Ashes defeat, and we've had some horror shows, was a new low even for us. It was horrific.

We're not the best team in the world but we're in so much of a better place than we were and that's down to a change in mental approach.

The declaration in this test was astonishing. I've been watching test cricket since the 1970s and I've never seen an England captain make such a declaration.

Away from home in the SC in the 1st test of a 3 match series, no other England captain I've seen, and I've seen plenty, would have made that call.

If it had gone wrong, previously the media would have held the captain out to dry, they would have struggled to survive.

But not now. Yes there would have been some criticism but Stokes and McCullum have changed the landscape for English test cricket - its OK to lose if you're trying to win - and that's a seismic change in English cricket and one which I believe which reap huge rewards.

For too long, English cricket was paralysed by the fear of failure. Paralysed that the media would crucify and destroy the individuals responsible.

We've changed that culture in the white ball team and McCullum and Stokes are doing the same for the test team.

I'm not saying that we'll rule the test match scene, we won't, but we'll be a damn site harder to beat than we have been.

Dry your eyes mate and get used to it. It will be around for a while

The duality of England supporters