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How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

M

ma1978

International Debutant
Qqq a
subshakerz said:
Not a fan of these raw averages but I think the era we should actually use is 2015 onwards. I don't recall Indian pitches being reported as being notably turning more before then.

And Kumbles combines two eras. The 90s likely had pitch conditions approaching what it has been since 2015 onwards. And the 2000s when they became flatter.
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There’s no statistical evidence to support this, just your perception
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
ma1978 said:
the level of spin friendliness in Indian pitches hasn’t changed materially over 30+ years. This is borne out by the numbers and having watched the games
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So it was the same in the 2000s as the last decade?

And what do you think of the spinner averages he posted?

Here is an article that gives numbers, from shorter matches to more spin fifers, that suggest a change in policy by the BCCI in 2015 towards results oriented pitches, both in domestic and international cricket. I've also heard plenty of former Indian cricketers from Dravid to Harbi discuss the changes in the state of pitches. At this point anyone suggesting everything was the same pitchwise is just denying the obvious.

www.google.com

'Result-oriented' pitches leave Ranji Trophy in a spin

Obsession with outright wins has made state associations desperate, and rank turners have been their weapon of choice
www.google.com www.google.com
 
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X

Xix2565

International Regular
You're using ancient articles of a certain point in time at the Ranji Trophy level to talk about Tests over a longer period of time. That's not debating in good faith here.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Xix2565 said:
You're using ancient articles of a certain point in time at the Ranji Trophy level to talk about Tests over a longer period of time. That's not debating in good faith here.
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Lol the article is discussing changes in Indian pitches domestically at the exact same time when I allege they changed for international games because as the article suggests it became an undeclared BCCI policy to boost results. And they give actual supporting data and quotes from players involved to suggest a notable shift in that time.

Please do your spin average test from 2015 onwards. I want to see the numbers.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Lol the article is discussing changes in Indian pitches domestically at the exact same time when I allege they changed for international games because as the article suggests it became an undeclared BCCI policy to boost results. And they give actual supporting data and quotes from players involved to suggest a notable shift in that time.

Please do your spin average test from 2015 onwards. I want to see the numbers.
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The average for opposition spinners have drapped c10%.it’s still super high, The gap between Indian and opposition spinners is wider than ever. The stats prove my point out
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Yeah I wouldn’t be using domestic pitches as an argument about pitches used for international games.

See: Sheffield Shield spinners
 
X

Xix2565

International Regular
From 05 Nov 2015 onwards (for Subs, this is when he believes pitches were changed specifically for spinners, completely ignoring how pitches have for long periods of time been made to suit home teams across all types of eras and the general inability of his to differentiate between various types of spinning wickets):

MatchesWicketsBowling AverageStrike Rate
Indian spinners4962021.6747.26
Visiting spinners (only games vs India counted)4940040.0167.51

Next will be asking for spinners' records in an even more specific period of time recently, while ignoring how fast bowlers have fared both in Kumble's era and since Ashwin debuted for both India and the opposition.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
Xix2565 said:
From 05 Nov 2015 onwards (for Subs, this is when he believes pitches were changed specifically for spinners, completely ignoring how pitches have for long periods of time been made to suit home teams across all types of eras and the general inability of his to differentiate between various types of spinning wickets):

MatchesWicketsBowling AverageStrike Rate
Indian spinners4962021.6747.26
Visiting spinners (only games vs India counted)4940040.0167.51

Next will be asking for spinners' records in an even more specific period of time recently, while ignoring how fast bowlers have fared both in Kumble's era and since Ashwin debuted for both India and the opposition.
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I think this statistically proves the point. Indian spinners are bloody good and they don’t operate on tailor made pitches. Otherwise opposition spinners would actually do much better.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
ma1978 said:
I think this statistically proves the point. Indian spinners are bloody good and they don’t operate on tailor made pitches. Otherwise opposition spinners would actually do much better.
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What? That isn't my point at all.

I never denied the superiority of Ashwin and Jadeja in these conditions. Just that the conditions give an extra benefit to both local and foreign spinners.
 
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