Socerer 01
International Captain
so funny that people think my point about 3-1 is because i believe WI are overrated and not because its not a good matchup stylistically
WI losing 2-1 is the absolute worst case scenario possible for a team that strong.I'm not relying on one offs. Your lot implies you needed reverse to take wickets in India. I said you don't.
And 3-1 is unrealistic because WI have a marked better batting and bowling than the crap that toured in 2018-19. And they have a better batting, bowling and fielding than a certain team that lost 2-1 twice.
Let me guess, you probably also think that this Indian team would white-wash WI of the 80s away or beat 2000s Australia in Australia as they've done recently going by recent results.
What? I was talking about WI specifically in Indian conditions. What on earth does Tufnell and co have to do with WI in India?Peter Willey scored 2 100s against peak WI pacers. Wayne Phillips has a 100 against Garner, Marshall, Holding too
Whitney has a 7fer against peak WI batting, Tufnell took a 6fer against a team that still had Richardson, Viv and Dessie
that WI team must be junk to let these players perform so well against them
@OverratedSanity was right, you really need to be hyperbolic af to get your point across in this exercise of who can strawman more
You missed the best and most important one; Allan Border taking a 11-fer against a batting line-up of Richards, Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Hooper and Logie; and winning the Test match.Peter Willey scored 2 100s against peak WI pacers. Wayne Phillips has a 100 against Garner, Marshall, Holding too
Whitney has a 7fer against peak WI batting, Tufnell took a 6fer against a team that still had Richardson, Viv and Dessie
that WI team must be junk to let these players perform so well against them
@OverratedSanity was right, you really need to be hyperbolic af to get your point across in this exercise of who can strawman more
For me they are favorites. I don't mind those who favor India. I am against those pretending India are going to dominate.Yeah, I was right; the whole argument is Subs straw maning the **** out of everything to somehow make Australia and WI the favourites, ignoring everything else willfully..... The only way to deal with him was what @OverratedSanity did.
It wasn't you, it was another poster who said you needed reverse swing to succeed in India.i literally said you need spinners to get good results in India, when did i even talk about reverse? to back that up i showed how most of the best pacers of this day and age havent done anything noteworthy in India and how the best touring teams here have always had 2 decent to good spinners at minimum
no, we would lose 3-0 or 4-0 away to 80s West Indies, hell i’d be happy if we took a game off them. again the people in this thread can only resort to shameless strawmanning and assumptions
Its amazing that some people think India would get whitewashed 6-0 in a 5 test series vs Australia and that Bumrah would pick up fewer wickets at a worse average than Deniss Lillee in Pakistan.Yeah, I was right; the whole argument is Subs straw maning the **** out of everything to somehow make Australia and WI the favourites, ignoring everything else willfully..... The only way to deal with him was what @OverratedSanity did.
alright my badWhat? I was talking about WI specifically in Indian conditions. What on earth does Tufnell and co have to do with WI in India?
The whole point about Chase and Holder is to show that WI players could produce the goods in India. They still got stomped but it's not unrealistic to believe that a better batting/bowling lineup could do much better.
with every post of his its gone from “hmm India will win 2-1 but it will be close” to “India will be lucky to even win or draw”Yeah, I was right; the whole argument is Subs straw maning the **** out of everything to somehow make Australia and WI the favourites, ignoring everything else willfully..... The only way to deal with him was what @OverratedSanity did.
sure but most bowling attacks overall are of much higher standard today than ever in the past with the notable exception being the Windies quartet and almost none of them have dominated in a series to hand out a series defeat to India and most of them have had unimpressive performances from their pacersIt wasn't you, it was another poster who said you needed reverse swing to succeed in India.
And respectfully, there are only two current pacers comparable to the greats of the past and one plays for India. Only Cummins and Bumrah are as good home and away (Bumrah actually) as the likes of Hadlee, Marshall, McGrath, Holding, Garner etc.
He was. But that was on less helpful pitches against better players of spin.... You can't really expect him to fail on every instance.Why do people keep saying Warne would be a decisive factor in India? Michael Clarke was a better bowler than Warne in India
because Kohli’s India wasnt the best at playing spinWhy do people keep saying Warne would be a decisive factor in India? Michael Clarke was a better bowler than Warne in India
The breaking point for me was when he said that India would win, but in a repeat tour, Australia and WI would be favourites....with every post of his its gone from “hmm India will win 2-1 but it will be close” to “India will be lucky to even win or draw”
I assume by past you mean the 80s. Because bowling in the 90s craps all over current attacks. Even in the 80s, idk that bowling now is much better.sure but most bowling attacks overall are of much higher standard today than ever in the past with the notable exception being the Windies quartet and almost none of them have dominated in a series to hand out a series defeat to India and most of them have had unimpressive performances from their pacers
Actually, I think this current Indian team may take a game off WI in WI and it's all down to Bumrah. But the batting vs pace leaves a lot to be desired unfortunately.alright my bad
Brijesh Patel scored a 100 against Holding and Roberts in WI, Balwant Sandhu has a 50 against the quartet in WI, Arshad Ayub took a 5fer in WI against a strong batting lineup. hence its not unrealistic to expect that a better batting/bowling lineup could do much better for India
So, so, wrong on this. Of the past attacks from the 80s, only the WI/PAK attacks can be said to be unequivocally better. Rest are far weaker even accounting for the occasional great bowler, and also less teams makes for a slightly weaker competition in general.Australia: Alderman, McDermott, Reid (Lillee until 1982)
Eng : Willis, Hendricks, Botham
Ind: Dev
NZ: Hadlee, Chatfield
Pak: Imran, Safraz, Tauseef, Qasim, Wasim
The only thing I'd say is the 80s had no great spinners like Ashwin or Jadeja but the bowling now is not a class above any of the ones listed.