How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[Socerer 01]

so funny that people think my point about 3-1 is because i believe WI are overrated and not because its not a good matchup stylistically

 

[subshakerz]

I'm not relying on one offs. Your lot implies you needed reverse to take wickets in India. I said you don't.

And 3-1 is unrealistic because WI have a marked better batting and bowling than the crap that toured in 2018-19. And they have a better batting, bowling and fielding than a certain team that lost 2-1 twice.

Let me guess, you probably also think that this Indian team would white-wash WI of the 80s away or beat 2000s Australia in Australia as they've done recently going by recent results.

WI losing 2-1 is the absolute worst case scenario possible for a team that strong.

Most likely for me is close win or draw. Same for Australia.

 

[Slifer]

Peter Willey scored 2 100s against peak WI pacers. Wayne Phillips has a 100 against Garner, Marshall, Holding too

Whitney has a 7fer against peak WI batting, Tufnell took a 6fer against a team that still had Richardson, Viv and Dessie

that WI team must be junk to let these players perform so well against them

@OverratedSanity was right, you really need to be hyperbolic af to get your point across in this exercise of who can strawman more

What? I was talking about WI specifically in Indian conditions. What on earth does Tufnell and co have to do with WI in India?

The whole point about Chase and Holder is to show that WI players could produce the goods in India. They still got stomped but it's not unrealistic to believe that a better batting/bowling lineup could do much better.

 

[subshakerz]

Another point to mention, even if India sneak a 2-1 victory against Aus/WI, there is no way that Aus/WI come back for a repeat tour as anything but favorites. Only the shock factor of pitch adjustment would allow India to take the early lead to win in a first tour.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Peter Willey scored 2 100s against peak WI pacers. Wayne Phillips has a 100 against Garner, Marshall, Holding too

Whitney has a 7fer against peak WI batting, Tufnell took a 6fer against a team that still had Richardson, Viv and Dessie

that WI team must be junk to let these players perform so well against them

@OverratedSanity was right, you really need to be hyperbolic af to get your point across in this exercise of who can strawman more

You missed the best and most important one; Allan Border taking a 11-fer against a batting line-up of Richards, Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Hooper and Logie; and winning the Test match.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah, I was right; the whole argument is Subs straw maning the **** out of everything to somehow make Australia and WI the favourites, ignoring everything else willfully..... The only way to deal with him was what @OverratedSanity did.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, I was right; the whole argument is Subs straw maning the **** out of everything to somehow make Australia and WI the favourites, ignoring everything else willfully..... The only way to deal with him was what @OverratedSanity did.

For me they are favorites. I don't mind those who favor India. I am against those pretending India are going to dominate.

 

[Slifer]

i literally said you need spinners to get good results in India, when did i even talk about reverse? to back that up i showed how most of the best pacers of this day and age havent done anything noteworthy in India and how the best touring teams here have always had 2 decent to good spinners at minimum

no, we would lose 3-0 or 4-0 away to 80s West Indies, hell i’d be happy if we took a game off them. again the people in this thread can only resort to shameless strawmanning and assumptions

It wasn't you, it was another poster who said you needed reverse swing to succeed in India.

And respectfully, there are only two current pacers comparable to the greats of the past and one plays for India. Only Cummins and Bumrah are as good home and away (Bumrah actually) as the likes of Hadlee, Marshall, McGrath, Holding, Garner etc.

 

[Xix2565]

It would be nice if people stopped being stupid about the WI and AUS sides. Come back to Earth and try using some logic and exercise those neurons inside you, would be a fresh break from most of this junk strawmen being put out.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, I was right; the whole argument is Subs straw maning the **** out of everything to somehow make Australia and WI the favourites, ignoring everything else willfully..... The only way to deal with him was what @OverratedSanity did.

Its amazing that some people think India would get whitewashed 6-0 in a 5 test series vs Australia and that Bumrah would pick up fewer wickets at a worse average than Deniss Lillee in Pakistan.

 

[Socerer 01]

What? I was talking about WI specifically in Indian conditions. What on earth does Tufnell and co have to do with WI in India?

The whole point about Chase and Holder is to show that WI players could produce the goods in India. They still got stomped but it's not unrealistic to believe that a better batting/bowling lineup could do much better.

alright my bad

Brijesh Patel scored a 100 against Holding and Roberts in WI, Balwant Sandhu has a 50 against the quartet in WI, Arshad Ayub took a 5fer in WI against a strong batting lineup. hence its not unrealistic to expect that a better batting/bowling lineup could do much better for India

 

[Socerer 01]

Yeah, I was right; the whole argument is Subs straw maning the **** out of everything to somehow make Australia and WI the favourites, ignoring everything else willfully..... The only way to deal with him was what @OverratedSanity did.

with every post of his its gone from “hmm India will win 2-1 but it will be close” to “India will be lucky to even win or draw”

 

[Socerer 01]

It wasn't you, it was another poster who said you needed reverse swing to succeed in India.

And respectfully, there are only two current pacers comparable to the greats of the past and one plays for India. Only Cummins and Bumrah are as good home and away (Bumrah actually) as the likes of Hadlee, Marshall, McGrath, Holding, Garner etc.

sure but most bowling attacks overall are of much higher standard today than ever in the past with the notable exception being the Windies quartet and almost none of them have dominated in a series to hand out a series defeat to India and most of them have had unimpressive performances from their pacers

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why do people keep saying Warne would be a decisive factor in India? Michael Clarke was a better bowler than Warne in India

 

[capt_Luffy]

Why do people keep saying Warne would be a decisive factor in India? Michael Clarke was a better bowler than Warne in India

He was. But that was on less helpful pitches against better players of spin.... You can't really expect him to fail on every instance.

 

[Socerer 01]

Why do people keep saying Warne would be a decisive factor in India? Michael Clarke was a better bowler than Warne in India

because Kohli’s India wasnt the best at playing spin

then again most spinners who played here dont have the type of glorious record you would expect if you listened blindly to what subs claims

 

[capt_Luffy]

with every post of his its gone from “hmm India will win 2-1 but it will be close” to “India will be lucky to even win or draw”

The breaking point for me was when he said that India would win, but in a repeat tour, Australia and WI would be favourites....

 

[Slifer]

sure but most bowling attacks overall are of much higher standard today than ever in the past with the notable exception being the Windies quartet and almost none of them have dominated in a series to hand out a series defeat to India and most of them have had unimpressive performances from their pacers

I assume by past you mean the 80s. Because bowling in the 90s craps all over current attacks. Even in the 80s, idk that bowling now is much better.

Besides the WI attack,

Australia: Alderman, McDermott, Reid (Lillee until 1982)

Eng : Willis, Hendricks, Botham
Ind: Dev
NZ: Hadlee, Chatfield
Pak: Imran, Safraz, Tauseef, Qasim, Wasim

The only thing I'd say is the 80s had no great spinners like Ashwin or Jadeja but the bowling now is not a class above any of the ones listed.

 

[Slifer]

alright my bad

Brijesh Patel scored a 100 against Holding and Roberts in WI, Balwant Sandhu has a 50 against the quartet in WI, Arshad Ayub took a 5fer in WI against a strong batting lineup. hence its not unrealistic to expect that a better batting/bowling lineup could do much better for India

Actually, I think this current Indian team may take a game off WI in WI and it's all down to Bumrah. But the batting vs pace leaves a lot to be desired unfortunately.

 

[Xix2565]

Australia: Alderman, McDermott, Reid (Lillee until 1982)

Eng : Willis, Hendricks, Botham
Ind: Dev
NZ: Hadlee, Chatfield
Pak: Imran, Safraz, Tauseef, Qasim, Wasim

The only thing I'd say is the 80s had no great spinners like Ashwin or Jadeja but the bowling now is not a class above any of the ones listed.

So, so, wrong on this. Of the past attacks from the 80s, only the WI/PAK attacks can be said to be unequivocally better. Rest are far weaker even accounting for the occasional great bowler, and also less teams makes for a slightly weaker competition in general.