How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Hayden, Martyn, Clarke, Gilly, Lehman, all fine players of spin.

So are Rohit, Pant, Pujara and peak Kohli . And Warne and Macgill are not more dangerous in Ind than Ashwin and Jadeja

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Contrary to popular belief the WI batsmen were not useless vs spin. Greenidge, Richards, Lloyd and Kallicharran were all good vs spin, and I would like to see this Indian batting line up vs an attack of Marshall, Holding, Garner and Harper

Similarly Warne and McGill aren't facing Tendulkar and co, this lineup isn't any where near that one in terms of prowess vs spin.

Think both series would probably end in draws, but wouldn't rule out a victory by any party involved.

This I agree with.

 

[Slifer]

Contrary to popular belief the WI batsmen were not useless vs spin. Greenidge, Richards, Lloyd and Kallicharran were all good vs spin, and I would like to see this Indian batting line up vs an attack of Marshall, Holding, Garner and Harper

Similarly Warne and McGill aren't facing Tendulkar and co, this lineup isn't any where near that one in terms of prowess vs spin.

Think both series would probably end in draws, but wouldn't rule out a victory by any party involved.

Yeah including Kalli in WI team would make a world of difference. The guy handled India's spin attacks in the 70s better than anyone else. I'd back him vs Ashwin and co in India.

I'm curious to know how nice everyone thinks this Indian team would do in Australia (2000s) and in the WI (80s team/condition).

 

[kyear2]

Yeah including Kalli in WI team would make a world of difference. The guy handled India's spin attacks in the 70s better than anyone else. I'd back him vs Ashwin and co in India.

I'm curious to know how nice everyone thinks this Indian team would do in Australia (2000s) and in the WI (80s team/condition).

Yeah, the great teams played well everywhere, at least wasn't restricted to doctored pitches at home

 

[capt_Luffy]

Again, you ignore the fact that comparatively ordinary Aussie sides with worse batting and bowling in 2017 and 2023 were able to be quite competitive with India and lose 2-1. I don't see a much better Aussie side doing anything but be better than them. So I favor a draw to be safe if not an Aussie win.

In fact, I think India would be so spooked by Warne and co to not prepare killer pitches.

Again as I said, that Australia also lost 3 series against a quite weak bowling attack..... In both those series, Bumrah didn't played; similar to how India drew in '04 in the absence of McGrath. I can't really see them beating this team more often than not. Also to remember, I can't think of any leg spinners to be very successful in India recently. Definitely not saying Warne would do worse than Lyon, but that's a factor. Overall, I just think it's definitely very close, but India is ahead in both batting and bowling.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah including Kalli in WI team would make a world of difference. The guy handled India's spin attacks in the 70s better than anyone else. I'd back him vs Ashwin and co in India.

I'm curious to know how nice everyone thinks this Indian team would do in Australia (2000s) and in the WI (80s team/condition).

Yeah, Kalicharan was as good a player of spin as Lloyd, WI batting is definitely ahead in India. Though I would probably still back India.

India isn't going to win in WI in the 80s, at most one game, definitely not a series. Australia I think similarly, though India drew one in Australia in the 2000s (and should had won that) with a much worse bowling attack; but on that series McGrath didn't played (also Warne) and Kumble was a beast, not to mention the batting was much more stronger.

 

[Slifer]

Yeah, Kalicharan was as good a player of spin as Lloyd, WI batting is definitely ahead in India. Though I would probably still back India.

India isn't going to win in WI in the 80s, at most one game, definitely not a series. Australia I think similarly, though India drew one in Australia in the 2000s with a much worse bowli

WI 80s aren't beating India in India ,I agree best they can get is a draw but I see them losing by one test. In the WI, before, I'd say in a 4 test series WI would win 3-0 but with Bumrah and Ashwin on a QPO wicket I might give them one test. Therefore 3-1 to WI.

 

[reyrey]

Australia have plenty of slow bowling resources to call on from that era. Obviously there's Warne and Macgill. Colin Millers offspin, plus a bunch of handy part timers in M Waugh, Lehmann, Katich and Clarke. Even Brad Hogg could probably do a job if needed.

A possible XI

Hayden
M Waugh
Martyn
Lehmann
Clarke
S Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Miller
McGrath

 

[capt_Luffy]

Australia have plenty of slow bowling resources to call on from that era. Obviously there's Warne and Macgill. Colin Millers offspin, plus a bunch of handy part timers in M Waugh, Lehmann, Katich and Clarke. Even Brad Hogg could probably do a job if needed.

A possible XI

Hayden
M Waugh
Martyn
Lehmann
Clarke
S Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Miller
McGrath

Why is Mark Waugh opening for Langer??

 

[reyrey]

Why is Mark Waugh opening for Langer??

Langer doesn't have a great record in India, got lots of starts, but that was it.

M Waugh has done okay there, plus his fielding and his part-time bowling. He opened in ODIs so it wouldn't be something new to him.

 

[shortpitched713]

I don't think you really need a great spinner ( and Warne wasn't that great in India anyway ). Really just need your batsmen to put up the necessary resistance to spin bowling, and your pacers will need to do a job with the new balls. I'd back the West Indies side more than the Australia one to do the job though.

 

[kyear2]

Again as I said, that Australia also lost 3 series against a quite weak bowling attack..... In both those series, Bumrah didn't played; similar to how India drew in '04 in the absence of McGrath. I can't really see them beating this team more often than not. Also to remember, I can't think of any leg spinners to be very successful in India recently. Definitely not saying Warne would do worse than Lyon, but that's a factor. Overall, I just think it's definitely very close, but India is ahead in both batting and bowling.

There's no existence where Lyon is remotely comparable to Warne in any regard.

How??????

So basically you're staying that this team should be ranked among the all time greats?

 

[capt_Luffy]

There's no existence where Lyon is remotely comparable to Warne in any regard.

How??????

So basically you're staying that this team should be ranked among the all time greats?

No, I am saying if Australia couldn't win against a much weaker India in flat pitches in the 2000s; they aren't really favourites now. When did I compared Warne and Lyon?? I just said most successful bowlers in India had been offies, not leggies.

 

[subshakerz]

No, I am saying if Australia couldn't win against a much weaker India in flat pitches in the 2000s; they aren't really favourites now. When did I compared Warne and Lyon?? I just said most successful bowlers in India had been offies, not leggies.

Let's be clear. A full strength Aussie side only played India in India in 2001 and 2004/5. In the first they nearly won except for some miracle performances. And they won the second.

And that was a much stronger Indian batting lineup.

Outside that, in 2008 and 2010 they didn't have Gillespie, McGrath and Warne. So that's the situation.

 

[kyear2]

Let's be clear. A full strength Aussie side only played India in India in 2001 and 2004/5. In the first they nearly won except for some miracle performances. And they won the second.

And that was a much stronger Indian batting lineup.

Outside that, in 2008 and 2010 they didn't have Gillespie, McGrath and Warne. So that's the situation.

This

 

[subshakerz]

WI 80s aren't beating India in India ,I agree best they can get is a draw but I see them losing by one test. In the WI, before, I'd say in a 4 test series WI would win 3-0 but with Bumrah and Ashwin on a QPO wicket I might give them one test. Therefore 3-1 to WI.

Again, look at the sides that India have played in the last decade and realise they haven't really been tested at nearly this level.

Top WI destroyed WI 3-0 in India in 83.

But in 74 they also trounced India with their spin quartet and didn't have their full pacers then.

The idea that pacers with success in India like Roberts and Marshall will be nonfactors is silly.

Even a basic spinner like Roger Harper will be a threat.

I do agree that Australia 2000s present a bigger challenge, thanks to Warne and MacGill.

 

[Bolo.]

I think people are underestimating how big the home advantage has grown in recent years. You are playing so many countries. Short tours. Warm-ups are basically dead. Players aren't doing FC in multiple countries.

I think people realise the extent to which this applies to India's bowling, but not their batting. India batting averaged 40 at home in the 2000s and 44 in the 2010s. Everyone seems to agree that their pitches were spicier. If anyone puts the 2000s bowling ahead of 2010s, I doubt it's by much. So, even if we think India's batting was on the whole stronger in the 2000s (with good reason), their bats have been doing a more effective job in India, boosted by home advantage (and ARs).

 

[subshakerz]

I think people are underestimating how big the home advantage has grown in recent years. You are playing so many countries. Short tours. Warm-ups are basically dead. Players aren't doing FC in multiple countries.

I think people realise the extent to which this applies to India's bowling, but not their batting. India batting averaged 40 at home in the 2000s and 44 in the 2010s. Everyone seems to agree that their pitches were spicier. If anyone puts the 2000s bowling ahead of 2010s, I doubt it's by much. So, even if we think India's batting was on the whole stronger in the 2000s (with good reason), their bats have been doing a more effective job in India, boosted by home advantage (and ARs).

Do you have a source for this? It may be due to Indian late order thanks to Ashwin and Jadeja as mentioned.

Regardless, I think India have employed this spicy pitch strategy because few of the opposition spinners are that high quality that the gamble would be worth it. Even then they lost tests to random spinners. There is no way they are going to use that strategy against Warne and MacGill.

Against WI, maybe.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Australia would have a chance of winning but India still slight favourites imo because the Indian seamers at home have been sensational. Don't think that Windies team would win though. This current version of the India side also isn't close to the best one.

Let's be clear. A full strength Aussie side only played India in India in 2001 and 2004/5. In the first they nearly won except for some miracle performances. And they won the second.

You can't on the one hand say australia weren't at full strength in other series and then ignore that India's main weapon at home, Kumble was out injured in 2001 and Sachin was out for two tests in 2004 with his elbow issues and was brought back in half fit as a panic selection.

 

[subshakerz]

Australia would have a chance of winning but India still slight favourites imo because the Indian seamers at home have been sensational. Don't think that Windies team would win though. This current version of the India side also isn't close to the best one.

McGrath and Gillespie are also great in India.

You can't on the one hand say australia weren't at full strength in other series and then ignore that India's main weapon at home, Kumble was out injured in 2001 and Sachin was out for two tests in 2004 with his elbow issues and was brought back in half fit as a panic selection.

Yeah and with Kumble injured in 2001 Australia should have steamrolled India but Harbi ended up bowling miraculously well at a level he never performed before or since.

Ponting was also out most of the series in 2004.

But even if we take your point, it is not remotely as comparable as Australia 2008 onwards. If you remove your entire ATG attack, is it really the same team?