How did India become the No. 1 Test Side?

[Burgey]

Yep. And apart from one or two sessions, the England series was downright embarrassing. I was embarrassed for England.

Like you said - India went undefeated in series for a long time in the past, but they usually dropped one or two tests, or drew a few tests, or marginally beat the other team. I recall a lot of 2-1s or 1-0 victories.

I genuinely don't recall an Indian team at home as good as this. Jadeja and Ashwin are absolutely freaks, especially at home, and the batting side goes up a notch too because of the favourable conditions.

Recent Indian home series have been white washes, or have only not been whitewashes because of weather. Australia was the only remotely competitive series, and even then they were brushed aside relatively easily barring the first match.

Jadeja is so freakish he couldn't get a game this tour, and Ashwin was dropped. They're home town bullies, pure and simple.

England will bend India over this year. There's no false dawn like an Indian Fast Bowling false dawn. As SS has noted innumerable times in the past; the Wheel is Forever.

I'd expect Kohli to improve on his last tour (not a high bar tbf), but the balance of the batting I'd expect to fail as they did this series.

Once that happens, they'll come out here and in the lead up we'll read about how Australian pitches are roads and easy to score runs on, then India will get beaten easily and might win one test if Australia generously declares twice after losing 12 wickets in the match like they did in Adelaide last time (a match India curiously regards as a close-run and noble defeat). Otherwise they won't get close.

Having said that, India deserves to be number one atm because of what they've done in recent times. There's no denying that. But if you're looking at a win in a dead rubber after being dusted in the first two tests as a sign they've suddenly become good away from home, then you're deluded I'm afraid.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Although I still believe England will win, Johannesburg leads me to believe that India might make a better fist of things in England. I believe they have a ''proper'' tour match also, v Essex.

 

[Motorwada]

Jadeja is so freakish he couldn't get a game this tour, and Ashwin was dropped. They're home town bullies, pure and simple.

England will bend India over this year. There's no false dawn like an Indian Fast Bowling false dawn. As SS has noted innumerable times in the past; the Wheel is Forever.

I'd expect Kohli to improve on his last tour (not a high bar tbf), but the balance of the batting I'd expect to fail as they did this series.

Once that happens, they'll come out here and in the lead up we'll read about how Australian pitches are roads and easy to score runs on, then India will get beaten easily and might win one test if Australia generously declares twice after losing 12 wickets in the match like they did in Adelaide last time (a match India curiously regards as a close-run and noble defeat). Otherwise they won't get close.

Having said that, India deserves to be number one atm because of what they've done in recent times. There's no denying that. But if you're looking at a win in a dead rubber after being dusted in the first two tests as a sign they've suddenly become good away from home, then you're deluded I'm afraid.

Jadeja could not get a game this tour because of team composition. He averages 20 odd in SA with the ball. Same with ashwin. He averaged 30 with the ball compared to Maharaj's 100 and was left out for team composition.

And the I think the wheel is finished. Shami with 110 @ 28.9 and Bhuvi with 63 @ 26.09 are proof of that. And seeing the U-19 side it is same to say it is not an anomaly.

Thing is India with it's population and craze for cricket should be no 1 for all time and extremely dominant like say the US or China in the Olympics. But the population benefit is offset by the fact that India is a poor nation and thus also has poor cricketing facilities. With India's growth (which will keep happening till mid century if not more) cricketing facilities have improved and the talent pool has become larger and thus the team has become better. An indication of this would be the number of good Indian players who are coming out of small towns (Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami, Jadeja, Dhoni, Pujara etc) compared to the older Indian teams where most of the core was composed of players from Mumbai/Delhi and the other larger metros. As India keeps growing the facilities will keep getting better, there will be more money (IPL purses will keep expanding etc) the team will keep getting better and better.

In the 80s-90s India were an okish mid level team, in the 2000s became a top 3-4 team and now is number 1. I expect India to stay number 1 from now on with the gap only getting bigger and bigger.

 

[Motorwada]

Although I still believe England will win, Johannesburg leads me to believe that India might make a better fist of things in England. I believe they have a ''proper'' tour match also, v Essex.

One good thing is ODIs/T20s are beforehand and we play late in the summer so hopefully we get some flat Oval/Lords pitches like Pakistan/Aus got in 2015/16 respectively.

 

[R!TTER]

Jadeja is so freakish he couldn't get a game this tour, and Ashwin was dropped. They're home town bullies, pure and simple.

England will bend India over this year. There's no false dawn like an Indian Fast Bowling false dawn. As SS has noted innumerable times in the past; the Wheel is Forever.

I'd expect Kohli to improve on his last tour (not a high bar tbf), but the balance of the batting I'd expect to fail as they did this series.

Once that happens, they'll come out here and in the lead up we'll read about how Australian pitches are roads and easy to score runs on, then India will get beaten easily and might win one test if Australia generously declares twice after losing 12 wickets in the match like they did in Adelaide last time (a match India curiously regards as a close-run and noble defeat). Otherwise they won't get close.

Having said that, India deserves to be number one atm because of what they've done in recent times. There's no denying that. But if you're looking at a win in a dead rubber after being dusted in the first two tests as a sign they've suddenly become good away from home, then you're deluded I'm afraid.

Jadeja didn't get a game because the captain probably didn't fancy his batting against the SA quicks. In hindsight had he played the 2nd test in place of Shami or Bumrah India could've won that game. He didn't get a game because the conditions were mostly unfavorable, not because he wasn't good enough - Kohli for better or worse generally goes to either extreme, for instance not bowling your main spinners good number of overs on a green track like Kolkata, Newlands. He is the opposite of Dhoni in that regard, definitely underestimates how spin can in effect change the course of a match even on seam friendly tracks or underbowls seamers in India.

Aus largely goes unbeaten at home due to the weight of runs they score in batting friendly conditions, 2003/04 & 2007/08 we batted brilliantly & nearly won both the series except for **** catching/umpiring at Sydney 2004 or Bucknor & co. 2008. On similar flat tracks in India Aus haven't come close to winning a game since 2004, you lost at one point 7 games in a row having won the toss 8 times in 10 tests. Even in the last series you won 3 out of 4 tosses, know what Aus win 95% of the tosses in India yet their record is bottom of the barrel as compared to SA or England. Why would anyone rate Aus, even after the last series, in Asia is beyond me - you have been diabolical in Asia for a good number of years now!

 

[Motorwada]

Also one more thing that will happen with India's economic growth apart from the increasing quality of the cricket team is a far larger Internet presence due to more internet coverage and English medium education. Think an English speaking China without the great firewall.

If you find a few of us insufferable well bad times are coming.

 

[Spark]

Jadeja being omitted is something that needs more attention tbh. Particularly given what was rolled out at Centurion.

 

[Spark]

In the 80s-90s India were an okish mid level team, in the 2000s became a top 3-4 team and now is number 1. I expect India to stay number 1 from now on with the gap only getting bigger and bigger.

Man nationalists are embarrassing.

 

[Burgey]

Jadeja didn't get a game because the captain probably didn't fancy his batting against the SA quicks. In hindsight had he played the 2nd test in place of Shami or Bumrah India could've won that game. He didn't get a game because the conditions were mostly unfavorable, not because he wasn't good enough - Kohli for better or worse generally goes to either extreme, for instance not bowling your main spinners good number of overs on a green track like Kolkata, Newlands. He is the opposite of Dhoni in that regard, definitely underestimates how spin can in effect change the course of a match even on seam friendly tracks or underbowls seamers in India.

Aus largely goes unbeaten at home due to the weight of runs they score in batting friendly conditions, 2003/04 & 2007/08 we batted brilliantly & nearly won both the series except for **** catching/umpiring at Sydney 2004 or Bucknor & co. 2008. On similar flat tracks in India Aus haven't come close to winning a game since 2004, you lost at one point 7 games in a row having won the toss 8 times in 10 tests. Even in the last series you won 3 out of 4 tosses, know what Aus win 95% of the tosses in India yet their record is bottom of the barrel as compared to SA or England. Why would anyone rate Aus, even after the last series, in Asia is beyond me - you have been diabolical in Asia for a good number of years now!

And what does any of this have to do with whether India is a good team away from home, which is the point people have been trying to make?

You've got a terrible memory if you think India were close in 07/08, not that it's particularly relevant to this discussion a decade later.

As for Jadeja and Ashwin, if they were as freakishly good as made out in the post I quoted, they'd have at least got a game. The fact they didn't just proves that even their own hierarchy realizes they aren't capable of doing a job outside favourable conditions. "Freak" players find a way. they don't go missing when a blade of grass appears on a pitch (or when the grass disappears for that matter). They aren't up to it across a range of conditions.

 

[Burgey]

Also one more thing that will happen with India's economic growth apart from the increasing quality of the cricket team is a far larger Internet presence due to more internet coverage and English medium education. Think an English speaking China without the great firewall.

If you find a few of us insufferable well bad times are coming.

You're insufferable all by yourself tbf.

 

[Burgey]

And the I think the wheel is finished. Shami with 110 @ 28.9 and Bhuvi with 63 @ 26.09 are proof of that. And seeing the U-19 side it is same to say it is not an anomaly.

Quoting this for posterity and for my benefit come January 2019.

 

[Daemon]

Fmd all this number one and clear cut number one talk is so tedious.

Also interesting to observe the type of posters that were posting during the series and those that only pulled out their keyboards after that whole pitch debacle.

 

[Motorwada]

Quoting this for posterity and for my benefit come January 2019.

Sure. Bookmark it.

 

[Motorwada]

You're insufferable all by yourself tbf.

Hehe I know. That's why I made that comment.

 

[sunilz]

Well neither were PONTING and LILLEE . And both are considered as ATG.
KOHLI already has more runs , more century, better average outside ASIA as compared to PONTING in ASIA. Lesser said about LILLEE the better.KOHLI is already ATG as per AUSTRALIAN standard

India will continue to be no.1 as long as team like AUSTRALIA keep getting embarrased in Bangladesh.

 

[Spark]

Well neither were PONTING and LILLEE . And both are considered as ATG.
KOHLI already has more runs , more century, better average outside ASIA as compared to PONTING in ASIA. Lesser said about LILLEE the better.KOHLI is already ATG as per AUSTRALIAN standard

India will continue to be no.1 as long as team like AUSTRALIA keep getting embarrased in Bangladesh.

Using caps doesn't make you look smarter ftr.

 

[R!TTER]

And what does any of this have to do with whether India is a good team away from home, which is the point people have been trying to make?

You've got a terrible memory if you think India were close in 07/08, not that it's particularly relevant to this discussion a decade later.

As for Jadeja and Ashwin, if they were as freakishly good as made out in the post I quoted, they'd have at least got a game. The fact they didn't just proves that even their own hierarchy realizes they aren't capable of doing a job outside favourable conditions. "Freak" players find a way. they don't go missing when a blade of grass appears on a pitch (or when the grass disappears for that matter). They aren't up to it across a range of conditions.

India haven't been good away from home in the last 6 or 7 years, no problems admitting that - only SA have done well in that period in part due to Kallis & Smith. Post their retirement even SA are starting to struggle away big time.

Depends on which side of the aisle you sit on, we had a number of wrong decisions go aging against us at Sydney, like 6 to 8 versus probably a couple for Aus. Having watched the series I'd say you're wrong on that one.

They are good not freakishly good, if Kohli was as good at reading pitches as he's at the presser he'd have played Jadeja in the second test. Apparently there's a good argument to be made that he's bad at both, Jadeja & Ashwin aren't nearly as bad as you want to think. Jadeja especially was the best bowler in the Ind/Aus series.

That's an assumption you're making based on zero facts. Kohli backs his pacers more, wrongly IMO, so we'll never know how good they can be on such tracks. Your argument is like saying Lyon is the worst because he's won Aus a grand total of zero tests in the 8 games he's played in India, 7 were spinning paradises.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Man nationalists are embarrassing.

I reckon he's actually pretty spot on tbh

The rest of the world is losing interest in cricket by the day and India is going as strong as ever

 

[Spark]

India haven;t been good away from home in the last 6 or 7 years, no problems admitting that - only SA have done well in that period in part due to Kallis & Smith. Post their retirement even SA are starting to struggle away big time.

Depends on which side of the aisle you sit on, we had a number of wrong decisions go aging against us at Sydney, like 6 to 8 versus probably a couple for Aus. Having watched the series I'd say you're wrong on that one.

They are good not freakishly good, if Kohli was as good at reading pitches as he's at the presser he'd have played Jadeja in the second test. Apparently there's a good argument to be made that he's bad at both, Jadeja & Ashwin aren't nearly as bad as you want to think. Jadeja especially was the best bowler in the Ind/Aus series.

I mean obviously it wasn't his fault. But in the context of discussing whether he's the best bowler in the world or not, surely that comes with an acknowledgement that to be considered in that bracket you have to be inked in for every game you can play? Imagine England taking a horses-for-courses approach with Anderson, or SL with Herath. Just would jar particularly badly, even if the decision has cricketing merit.

 

[Spark]

I reckon he's actually pretty spot on tbh

The rest of the world is losing interest in cricket by the day and India is going as strong as ever

I don't think there's actually much evidence of this being true tbh. People pointing to attendances etc forget that they've always been like that or in fact worse. The big, sharp declines are for domestic cricket in England especially, and frankly that's hardly worth mentioning (although much could be said about the ECB's particular aversion to trying to actually maintain cricket as a mass participation sport).