How come English can't bat?

[marc71178]

I have utmost respect for Botham and Flintoff (I wish they were Australian) and Stewart was of course an excellent keeper/batsman. The only reason I included them in that list is that they were regulars in the top 6 despite only averaging in the 30's

Because all through his career Stewart always averaged in the 30s didn't he?

 

[aussie tragic]

Sorry for dragging this thread up again, however I find it interesting that all of English top 7 in the latest test average greater than 40.00.

Strauss: 42.26
Cook: 46.25
Vaughan: 43.50
Pietersen 54.40
Collingwood: 44.16
Bell: 44.48
Prior 111.00

Does this mean England can bat after all

 

[Fiery]

Sorry for dragging this thread up again, however I find it interesting that all of English top 7 in the latest test average greater than 40.00.

Strauss: 42.26
Cook: 46.25
Vaughan: 43.50
Pietersen 53.45
Collingwood: 44.16
Bell: 44.48
Prior 160.00

Does this mean England can bat after all

No doubt they can bat, it's whether they can bowl that's more in doubt

 

[Richard]

Sorry for dragging this thread up again, however I find it interesting that all of English top 7 in the latest test average greater than 40.00.

Strauss: 42.26
Cook: 46.25
Vaughan: 43.50
Pietersen 53.45
Collingwood: 44.16
Bell: 44.48
Prior 160.00

Does this mean England can bat after all

No, IMO. It means that batting in England in the last 6 years has been way easier than at any time since the 1930s.

 

[marc71178]

Sorry for dragging this thread up again, however I find it interesting that all of English top 7 in the latest test average greater than 40.00.

Strauss: 42.26
Cook: 46.25
Vaughan: 43.50
Pietersen 53.45
Collingwood: 44.16
Bell: 44.48
Prior 160.00

Does this mean England can bat after all

I think the bottom 4 averaging less than 40 between them counteracts it to a degree...

 

[Prince EWS]

I think the bottom 4 averaging less than 40 between them counteracts it to a degree...

Plunkett's average is highly misleading though (although not as much as Prior's, obviously!!).

 

[grecian]

Plunkett's average is highly misleading though (although not as much as Prior's, obviously!!).

Well, how is it highly misleading:

First-class 43 64 15 957 74* 19.53 2294 41.71 0 2


He's scored two fifties in first class cricket, I didn't even put up his Test record, as that's just embarrassing.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well, how is it highly misleading:

First-class 43 64 15 957 74* 19.53 2294 41.71 0 2


He's scored two fifties in first class cricket, I didn't even put up his Test record, as that's just embarrassing.

The embarressing nature of his test average is what is misleading, obviously. His first class record seems a bit misleading to me as well - he looks a decent bat to me againt anything other than leg spin - but I won't argue it as he's played a fair few games.

 

[grecian]

Its just an average of 19 in first-class cricket, doesn't suggest he'll be any much more then that in test cricket. I do realise he looks a bit better then tht, at times, but I've been fooled by that type of thing many times for England. Pringle, Capel, Gough, Cork, Harmison, Edmonds, Ellison, Ealham et cetera, all looked to have some ability with the bat, but it all ended in nought, many times literally.

 

[jot1]

No doubt they can bat, it's whether they can bowl that's more in doubt

With Allan Donald going over to help coach the fast bowlers, that might change soon.

 

[Gloucefan]

Every one of Englands top 6 average 40+.

Edit

ahhh old thread.

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

I would be very surprised if Pietersen and Cook didn't maintain an average of close to, if not over 50 throughout the vast majority of their test careers. That will be due in part to a lower level of quality bowling that they'll have to face, but also comes down to the fact that for my money, they're the two best batsmen England have produced in a long time.

I think there are some good times for England ahead actually. The batting looks great with Pietersen and Cook still young, and even younger players such as Godleman and Denly making a big impact in the domestic scene. Things look a bit thin in the fast-bowling department, but Broad should do well at this level, and much is expected of Onions as well. We also finally have some good spin bowling prospects coming through - Panesar has already shown what he can do, and in Rashid, we have a genuine leggie who looks like he can take wickets on a fairly regular basis.

 

[Fiery]

With Allan Donald going over to help coach the fast bowlers, that might change soon.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

 

[Poker Boy]

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

Troy Cooley did...

 

[Richard]

Did he? Coulda fooled me. He didn't make Harmison into anything remarkable - at all, whatever the nonsense that's been allowed to build-up around those two says - and he certainly didn't do a lot with Hoggard.

The only thing he did was got a sensational series out of Flintoff and Jones... one single series...

 

[Richard]

I would be very surprised if Pietersen and Cook didn't maintain an average of close to, if not over 50 throughout the vast majority of their test careers. That will be due in part to a lower level of quality bowling that they'll have to face, but also comes down to the fact that for my money, they're the two best batsmen England have produced in a long time.

They have the potential to have better averages than anyone for a long time... whether they're actually better than the Gooches, Athertons and Gowers can't really be known for certain unless there's an increase in the quality of the bowling. Cook certainly strikes me as someone who might well be, and Pietersen it's not inconceivable.

But it can't be known for certain if the bowling remains as poor as it has been the last 6 years.

 

[Piper]

For some reason, our players seem to do really well at say county level but when it comes to International they go to pot. Look at Graeme(sp?) Hick, he's made 100 First Class 100's and hardly did anything for England. I don't know why it happens.. it just does.

 

[marc71178]

The only thing he did was got a sensational series out of Flintoff and Jones... one single series...

Flintoff had more than just one series...

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

They have the potential to have better averages than anyone for a long time... whether they're actually better than the Gooches, Athertons and Gowers can't really be known for certain unless there's an increase in the quality of the bowling. Cook certainly strikes me as someone who might well be, and Pietersen it's not inconceivable.

But it can't be known for certain if the bowling remains as poor as it has been the last 6 years.

Yeah, that's definitely a fair comment. Also adds weight to the argument that statistics only tell half the story (if that).

I don't know enough about batting technique to say if Pietersen's all round technical ability is up there with the best or not, but I have never seen anyone take such a big stride down the wicket and dominate fast bowlers in the way that he does. There's something quite mesmeric about watching him willingly walk down the trackt towards a guy hurling a hard red ball at him at close to 90mph and spearing it through the midwicket region.

 

[Richard]

Flintoff had more than just one series...

Indeed, but you'd have to be a complete numpty to suggest that 2005 wasn't like nothing else he's ever bowled like.

He'd never bowled that well before and never has again since.