Historical footage: Impressions of some greats

[AndyZaltzHair]

watson,

One ball only.

playlist here,


https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLw3TDbfl2YpOcf_ySZg2X2lXAgIG0sh1G&v=hS8Buzo3sv8

 

[Migara]

Here is the keeper standing-up to a young Jimmy Anderson (from the 3 minute mark) in a T20 game against Australia. Anderson doesn't look like he's holding back, so I assume that he's bowling in the mid 130s. That is, fast-medium.

Having read about, and seen the footage of Gregory, Tate, Allen, Farnes, Voce, McCormick, and Wall, I don't believe that there is much doubt that they all operated consistently in the mid 130s, or higher in the case of Gregory.

Bill Bowes is interesting as his action makes it difficult to judge. He did concentrate on swing, and I am reminded of Damien Fleming, so maybe around 130?

Larwood would have pushed the 140s, and on a good day hit the 150s.

Proves nothing. This was done as a defensive move, and is short term. And the length is pre determined and fixed, unlike a test match. No short balls are bowled.

 

[Migara]

Your comment about keepers standing up has been dealt with. Sufficient to say Waqar has stumping dismissals to his credit.

I think you have not read the whole argument about it.

"]So the best possible explanation is when you see some one was fast medium and keeper stood up to the wicket both in same sentence, either the bowler was not fast medium, or he has reduced his speed to suit the conditions."

And Waqar has no stumped dismissal in test or ODI cricket.

I disagree with the impression you have of yourself. I say you only go by your opinions. After all you have no speed gun evidence from earlier eras. So I know your beliefs. Its just you have no rational reason for them. You intimated Adcock bowled at 125k. (Maybe Heine too). This in and before 1960. Yet within 3 years Charlie Griffith was terrorising England and by decade's end Lillee was bowling express and Thommo and Roberts were just around the corner, all hitting the 150k. Well that's big improvement in 3-10 years and you'd have us think that batsmen could adjust to the upscale in speed in so short time? They adjusted because there was little difference in speeds being attained by the bowlers.

Lillee, Thommo and WI pacemen were different from what they have seen a generation before. That's why they were different. Otherwise there would have been no difference at all. About Hall and Griffith, they were not out and out quick every ball according to what I read, but they had a effort ball that knocked batsmen out. And there was some discussions whether they threw their effort balls. I never said these players are 125k, but I wanted to find out what was the condition of the pitch. if they were playing on a slow low track, then keeper standing that much back shows bowlers are pretty pacy. But if the pitch is like Perth or a matting, there is no possible way to catch a 6'4" 135k bowler at that keeping position. Either you have to go right up to the stumps (which will take out the bouncer and short of a length out of the equation) or right back where it comes to you at thigh high.

the rest of the argument is usual "glorifying the past" stuff. Every sport has evolved to be faster, but people who glorify the past seems to think cricket have not.

 

[the big bambino]

I don't think that about the past and standards at all. You're just putting words in my mouth bcos you can't counter what is actually said to suit your generational jingoism. A few corrections.

Hall's action was never questioned.
Griffith was swift. Those who faced him and then Lillee and the likes of Roberts found no difference in pace. There was suspicion over his bumper and yorker. However that is all they remained. I can't find any record of him being called unlike Murali for example.
I have seen many examples of keepers standing up to bowlers in supposedly legendary bouncy Australia. I have not seen bowlers reduce their pace to accommodate the tactic.
However yes, it is true that it rather takes the bumper out of the equation but being limited to a length doesn't limit the speed you can bowl.
No matter which way you slice it the consequences of edging a ball bowled at 100k is the same now as it has always been. If you really think bowlers were slower the slips back then would not have stood any further back than they did for Kumble.

Correction. I can't find Griffith on a list of bowlers called for throwing but his Wikipedia page says he was twice. Once in a test V India another in a tour match in England.

 

[fredfertang]

Griff was called twice - story here

Charlie Griffith ? Guilty or Not Guilty? | Cricket Web

 

[watson]

Here we have George Headley scoring a 50 with a badly sprained ankle (WAG) and Hedley Verity bowling. The more I see of Verity the more I think that he looks sensationally good.

There is also a single delivery by Manny Martindale.

As usual the viewer is left wanting more.

 

[fredfertang]

Some of the West Indies fielding at the start of that clip is an eye opener - real village green stuff

 

[harsh.ag]

Very nice clip. Verity, as usual, is all class.

Headley playing with that ankle, though. Would never happen today.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Here we have George Headley scoring a 50 with a badly sprained ankle (WAG) and Hedley Verity bowling. The more I see of Verity the more I think that he looks sensationally good.

There is also a single delivery by Manny Martindale.

As usual the viewer is left wanting more.

Nice one, watched Headley bat for first time.

 

[watson]

Some more footage from the same England V West Indies series. The nice thing about the footage is that it shows part of Jardine's first Test century, and Learie Constantine bowling to a "leg-field". Constantine looks quite lively, and not too bad at ball.

 

[the big bambino]

Has anyone been able to find film of Vintcent van der Bijl bowling?

 

[Migara]

Frank Tyson any one? From descriptions he looks scary. IIRC hurt batsmen through the pads! Only other instance I heard such a story was M. Akram splitting the thigh pad.

 

[the big bambino]

Go to the RIP Frank Tyson thread. Check Zinzan's post.

 

[watson]

RIP Frank Tyson, 85.

 

[watson]

Tyson's action in slowmo.

 

[harsh.ag]

There is very little chance he generated 150+ speed on a consistent basis from that run up! Also not surprised he faced so much injury. Back breaking action that for someone trying to generate that much pace.

 

[watson]

Here is Tyson again in slowmo, but trying a bit harder than in the above County game. There are also snippets of Statham, Appleyard, Johnston, and Johnson bowling. Johnson's run up for a spinner seems very long.

 

[watson]

This one is for Peter May fans. He only scores 42 but looks all class, especially when playing the back-foot drive. I was also impressed with Graveney as well who makes it look all too easy.

 

[Burgey]

That's a decent shot to play first rock. FMD

 

[OverratedSanity]

This doesn't quite fit the thread since it's from the 80s, but it's incredibly rare footage. It's Gavaskar's legendary 96... his final test innings. All I'd seen before were snippets of the action, but this is an hour and a half long, and it makes it clear how ridiculous the pitch was. The ball's spitting up and turning square almost every other ball.

TrevorByers what a legend.