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Harold Larwood vs James Anderson

Larwood vs Anderson

  • Total voters
    27
P

peterhrt

State 12th Man
Some opinions on relative standing of English fast/medium bowlers.

1899. WG Grace.
1 George Freeman, 2 Lohmann, 3 Richardson, 4 Lockwood

1914. AE Stoddart.
1 Barnes, 2 Lohmann, 3 Lockwood

1932. Pelham Warner.
1 Barnes, 2 Lockwood, 3 Lohmann, 4 FR Foster

1959. Herbert Strudwick.
1 Barnes, 2 Richardson, 3 Tate, 4 Bedser, 5 Lockwood

1971. Gubby Allen , Ames, Fingleton and O'Reilly chose their 20 greatest cricketers since 1921.
Tate 4 votes, Bedser 3, Larwood 3, Statham 1, Trueman 1

1979. Cricket Society members.
1 Barnes, 2 Trueman, 3= Larwood, Richardson

1982. Tom Graveney's post-war choice.
Fast: 1 Statham, 2 Trueman, 3 Tyson. Elsewhere he said Les Jackson was the best bowler in England during much of the 1950s.
Medium-fast: 1 Bedser, 2 Bailey, 3 Botham, 4 Loader

1997. John Woodcock's 100 Greatest Cricketers (ranking).
6 Barnes, 20 Bedser, 40 Lohmann, 45 Trueman, 47 Richardson, 77 Statham, 86 Willis, 93 Larwood. All-rounders Mynn 4th, Botham 9th, Hirst 41st, FS Jackson 85th.

2000. Wisden Cricketers of the 20th Century.
Barnes 11 votes, Larwood 6, Bedser 2, Trueman 2, Tate 1. Botham received 9 votes as an all-rounder.

2009. Christopher Martin-Jenkins Top 100 Cricketers (ranking).
7 Barnes, 22 Trueman, 29 Bedser, 49 Larwood, 50 Lohmann, 66 Snow, 77 Tate, 89 Statham. All-rounders Botham 18th, Flintoff 82nd.

2009. Cricinfo. Ten English judges picked their all-time England XI.
Barnes 9 votes, Larwood 6, Trueman 4, Snow 3, Tyson 2, Bedser 1, Willis 1. Botham received 9 votes as an all-rounder, Greig 1 and FS Jackson 1.

2010. 100 ex-players picked their all-time World XIs.
Barnes 10 votes, Trueman 9, Bedser 7, Larwood 3, Statham 1. Botham received 18 votes as an all-rounder, Flintoff 1.
 
P

peterhrt

State 12th Man
Coronis said:
Have not heard of this list. Sounds like a fascinating one.
Click to expand...
Post from 2023.
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In 1971 The Cricketer magazine celebrated its 50th anniversary by asking four eminent senior figures to choose their greatest twenty cricketers since 1921. The four were Ames, Gubby Allen, O'Reilly and Fingleton. Bradman was invited but declined.

All four played most of their cricket during the 1930s, so one might expect a weighting towards that time and towards England and Australia. Ames and Allen later became selectors and administrators, the two Australians respected journalists.

All four judges voted for nine players: Bradman, Hobbs, Hammond, Hutton, Compton, Headley, Sobers, Lindwall and Tate.

Three votes were given to O'Reilly (was told to vote for himself but refused), Grimmett, Larwood, Bedser, Ponsford and McCabe.

Two nominations: Macartney, May, Worrell, Miller, Evans, Laker.

One: Barry Richards, Graeme Pollock, Weekes, Harvey, Hassett, Sutcliffe, Woolley, Leyland, Duleepsinhji, Rhodes, Trueman, Statham, Mailey, Freeman.

With 21 cricketers receiving two or more nominations, editor Swanton had to remove one to leave an overall Top 20. He removed Laker on the grounds of meeting "only limited success outside England."

Fingleton's comments were the most interesting, especially when quoting Herbie Collins' opinion that Headley was the most complete batsman he ever saw. Fingleton signed off by saying: "I must stress, finally, that statistics didn't matter a tinker's cuss with me. I estimated capacity and individualism. I looked at the subject in memory's eye."
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Coronis

Coronis

Hall of Fame Member
peterhrt said:
Post from 2023.
===============================================================================================
In 1971 The Cricketer magazine celebrated its 50th anniversary by asking four eminent senior figures to choose their greatest twenty cricketers since 1921. The four were Ames, Gubby Allen, O'Reilly and Fingleton. Bradman was invited but declined.

All four played most of their cricket during the 1930s, so one might expect a weighting towards that time and towards England and Australia. Ames and Allen later became selectors and administrators, the two Australians respected journalists.

All four judges voted for nine players: Bradman, Hobbs, Hammond, Hutton, Compton, Headley, Sobers, Lindwall and Tate.

Three votes were given to O'Reilly (was told to vote for himself but refused), Grimmett, Larwood, Bedser and McCabe.

Two nominations: Macartney, Ponsford, May, Worrell, Miller, Evans, Laker.

One: Barry Richards, Graeme Pollock, Weekes, Harvey, Hassett, Sutcliffe, Woolley, Leyland, Duleepsinhji, Rhodes, Trueman, Statham, Mailey, Freeman.

With 21 cricketers receiving two or more nominations, editor Swanton had to remove one to leave an overall Top 20. He removed Laker on the grounds of meeting "only limited success outside England."

Fingleton's comments were the most interesting, especially when quoting Herbie Collins' opinion that Headley was the most complete batsman he ever saw. Fingleton signed off by saying: "I must stress, finally, that statistics didn't matter a tinker's cuss with me. I estimated capacity and individualism. I looked at the subject in memory's eye."
===============================================================================================
Click to expand...
Classic Bradman.

Interesting that Ames himself received no votes. Neither Oldfield nor Tallon either.

Mailey of all the blokes nominated gave me the biggest chuckle.

I assume who each individual voted for was not revealed?
 
P

peterhrt

State 12th Man
Coronis said:
Interesting that Ames himself received no votes. Neither Oldfield nor Tallon either.

I assume who each individual voted for was not revealed?
Click to expand...
All four voted for Bradman, Hobbs, Hammond, Hutton, Compton, Headley, Sobers, Lindwall and Tate.

All except Ames voted for Bedser, Grimmett, Larwood and McCabe. All except Allen voted for Ponsford. All voted for O'Reilly except himself.

Two votes: Evans (Allen, Fingleton), Laker (Allen, Ames), Macartney (Fingleton, O'Reilly), May (Allen, Ames), Miller (Ames, Fingleton),
Worrell (Ames, O'Reilly).

One vote: Barry Richards (O'Reilly), Graeme Pollock (Fingleton), Weekes (Allen), Harvey (Fingleton), Hassett (O'Reilly), Sutcliffe (Ames),
Woolley (Ames), Leyland (O'Reilly), Duleepsinhji (Ames), Rhodes (Allen), Trueman (Ames), Statham (Allen), Mailey (O'Reilly), Freeman (Ames).

Hassett and Leyland both enjoyed success against O'Reilly. Fingleton considered Oldfield and Tallon, but went for Evans for his ability to stand up to the stumps to Bedser.
 
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The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
So according to that exercise in The Cricketer, the top ten cricketers from 1921-1977 were, chronologically:

Jack Hobbs
Maurice Tate
Walter Hammond
Don Bradman
George Headley
Bill O'Reilly
Len Hutton
Denis Compton
Ray Lindwall
Garry Sobers
 
The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
The Tiger obviously relented on his modesty with age, because in the 1980s when asked to choose his all time Australian XI by selecting himself and ten others, he did actually follow the instructions and picked himself in the team!
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
DrWolverine said:
0 votes for Barnes
Just 1 vote for Sutcliffe
Surprising
Click to expand...
Because stats aren't everything and neither Barrington nor Sutcliffe were, as I referenced in another thread, that especially highly rated during their time. Greats yes, but Sutcliffe wasn't nearly as highly rated as Hammond, Hobbs or Hutton.

Barry got as many votes as Sutcliffe and he was at that time at the very start of his prime.

But I digress.

Barnes fell outside of the specified period.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
The Sean said:
The Tiger obviously relented on his modesty with age, because in the 1980s when asked to choose his all time Australian XI by selecting himself and ten others, he did actually follow the instructions and picked himself in the team!
Click to expand...
Every time I read something about the gentleman, I'm more intrigued.
 
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