Harold Larwood vs James Anderson

[Johan]

so the Greatest English pacer of them all is agreed to be Sydney Francis Barnes, and the number two is obviously Fiery Fred Trueman, so who is the third Greatest English pacer of all time?

 

[Cricket Bliss]

so the Greatest English pacer of them all is agreed to be Sydney Francis Barnes, and the number two is obviously Fiery Fred Trueman, so who is the third Greatest English pacer of all time?
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I love Larwood… but Anderson is the GOAT of longevity..188 Tests for a fast bowler definitely makes him look elite

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Christopher Woakes

 

[Coronis]

Larwood is another very mythologised player.

 

[Johan]

Larwood is another very mythologised player.

Didn't he have a higher reputation than both Lindwall and Trueman

 

[Coronis]

Didn't he have a higher reputation than both Lindwall and Trueman

Mhm. He had one of the great series for a pacer, but outside of that his record is (putting it nicely) poor and inconsistent.

For example in his previous Ashes tour, a marvellous 8/62 in the first test. In the other 4 combined, 10/662.

I think it was truly a shame that he never played for England again but I’m only rating him on what he actually did in tests, not what could’ve been.

 

[Johan]

Mhm. He had one of the great series for a pacer, but outside of that his record is (putting it nicely) poor and inconsistent.

For example in his previous Ashes tour, a marvellous 8/62 in the first test. In the other 4 combined, 10/662.

I think it was truly a shame that he never played for England again but I’m only rating him on what he actually did in tests, not what could’ve been.

yeah truly a bummer that he didn't have a career after bodyline

 

[kyear2]

so the Greatest English pacer of them all is agreed to be Sydney Francis Barnes, and the number two is obviously Fiery Fred Trueman, so who is the third Greatest English pacer of all time?
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Frank Tyson

 

[Bolo.]

Mhm. He had one of the great series for a pacer, but outside of that his record is (putting it nicely) poor and inconsistent.

For example in his previous Ashes tour, a marvellous 8/62 in the first test. In the other 4 combined, 10/662.

I think it was truly a shame that he never played for England again but I’m only rating him on what he actually did in tests, not what could’ve been.

That great series came when he was 30ish and going to start aging out soon, and used tactics that were banned after the series.

 

[DrWolverine]

so the Greatest English pacer of them all is agreed to be Sydney Francis Barnes, and the number two is obviously Fiery Fred Trueman, so who is the third Greatest English pacer of all time?
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Anderson

 

[Coronis]

That great series came when he was 30ish and going to start aging out soon, and used tactics that were banned after the series.

Yeah I know. Still its a what if. He was still impressive in county. Definitely should have made the 36/37 team. Would have been an interesting psychological choice with Bradman’s first series as captain.

Larwood’s 1936 season..

22 matches 119 @ 12.97 SR 34.24 13 5’fers 4 10’fers (topped averages)

 

[Bolo.]

Yeah I know. Still its a what if. He was still impressive in county. Definitely should have made the 36/37 team. Would have been an interesting psychological choice with Bradman’s first series as captain.

Larwood’s 1936 season..

22 matches 119 @ 12.97 SR 34.24 13 5’fers 4 10’fers (topped averages)

His FC record is great in general, and does leave a bit of a 'what if' feeling to his test record. But the what if is not so strong with him given his years of poorish test performances.

 

[Coronis]

His FC record is great in general, and does leave a bit of a 'what if' feeling to his test record. But the what if is not so strong with him given his years of poorish test performances.

Yeah I know. I did say he’s overrated and over mythologised earlier

 

[the big bambino]

If you were one of 2 people picking teams and the other guy picked Anderson when he could have had Larwood, you would thank the Lord you were up against such a dumb arse.

 

[subshakerz]

Its pretty surprising that England haven't produced more ATG pacers.

 

[peterhrt]

yeah truly a bummer that he didn't have a career after bodyline

Larwood refused to play against the Australians in 1934, and made himself unavailable in 1936-37 when he went to India instead.

MCC (on behalf of the British government) was now more interested in maintaining good wider diplomatic relations with Australia than in winning cricket matches. Anybody likely to bowl fast and short was excluded. That meant no Voce in 1934. He had continued to bowl bouncers in county cricket and let it be known he would not spare the Australians. In August he took 8-66 for Notts in the tourists' first innings. Bradman didn't play. By 1936 Voce's stance had softened and he was chosen to tour.

 

[Coronis]

Larwood refused to play against the Australians in 1934, and made himself unavailable in 1936-37 when he went to India instead.

MCC (on behalf of the British government) was now more interested in maintaining good wider diplomatic relations with Australia than in winning cricket matches. Anybody likely to bowl fast and short was excluded. That meant no Voce in 1934. He had continued to bowl bouncers in county cricket and let it be known he would not spare the Australians. In August he took 8-66 for Notts in the tourists' first innings. Bradman didn't play. By 1936 Voce's stance had softened and he was chosen to tour.

I’m pretty sure it was actually because he wouldn’t issue a public apology. Which he should not have had to.

By the beginning of the 1934 season Larwood was fit again, and it was anticipated that he would play in the Tests. Jardine had earlier issued an unequivocal statement that he would not play. By way of confirming their commitment not to use bodyline, the MCC committee decided that Larwood should apologise to the Australians for his bowling on the 1932–33 tour. No such apology had been requested from Jardine; Larwood refused to do so, insisting that he had bowled precisely as instructed by his captain. Shortly before the second Test, he wrote in the Sunday Dispatch that he was unrepentant about leg theory, adding: "I doubt if I shall ever play against [the Australians] again, at least in big cricket". Larwood's Test career thus ended. In its review of the 1934 season, Wisden commented: "No greater disservice was ever done to English cricket than when Larwood was induced to dash into print and become responsible for statements which put him beyond the pale of being selected for England".

I’m not sure if it was the exact same case for Voce. I do know at one point he asked the MCC not to select him, but then made himself available for 36/37.

 

[Johan]

Its pretty surprising that England haven't produced more ATG pacers.

only thing that consistently produces ATG pacers is flat home pitches and err, England doesn't have that.