Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[Cevno]

That's a much more extreme and un-credible charge than the one against Harbhajan itself - that you've insisted shouldn't be repeated because there's no hard evidence. Apart from anything else, Channel 9 could rightfully expect to get sued should it emerge that it fiddled with the tape or the transcript, and if you think misguided patriotism is a stronger influence on them than the opinions of their company lawyers, you're delusional.

I am not saying that they have doctored with evidence ,but since it took so long for them to just produce evidence whereas in the gibbs case evidence was presented on that day it can be easily argued in court of law that it is doctored.
Considering that the recording of kumble -sehwag conversation in the perth test was shown after few minutes after ponting dismissal and this took two weeks to produce is a bit sinsiter ain't it?

 

[Cevno]

What evidence?

You have to prove me wrong.
That is how you wanted it to work .Ain't it?

 

[Matt79]

I am not saying that they have doctored with evidence ,but since it took so long for them to just produce evidence whereas in the gibbs case evidence was presented on that day it can be easily argued in court of law that it is doctored.
Considering that the recording of kumble -sehwag conversation in the perth test was shown after few minutes after ponting dismissal and this took two weeks to produce is a bit sinsiter ain't it?

Personally, whenever I'm faced with the choice of believing something happened because the people involved were incompetent, rather than were involved in a conspiracy, I choose "stupid" every time. The stupidity of people is a constant, and the major stumbling block of nearly any conspiracy theory you care to name.

 

[Matt79]

You have to prove me wrong.
That is how you wanted it to work .Ain't it?

This is the post you were responding to when you made your claim.

There's secondary and circumstantial evidence that would have allowed me to reasonably form that view.

I'd like to hear what the secondary and circumstantial evidence is, that's all. And the fact that the charges against Bhajji doesn't prove that the allegations were a deliberate conspiracy - it just proves that the allegations might have been wrong and says nothing about the motivation of those making that allegation.

 

[Cevno]

Personally, whenever I'm faced with the choice of believing something happened because the people involved were incompetent, rather than were involved in a conspiracy, I choose "stupid" every time. The stupidity of people is a constant, and the major stumbling block of nearly any conspiracy theory you care to name.

But if you consider stupidity in every case then most of murder cases will be reduced to "causing death due to neglicence or undeliberate action" based on stupidity of people and not conspiracy to kill.

 

[Pratters]

having been on here for both controversies and following them closely, it seems like people (on the whole, not accusing anyone specifically) pick and choose arguments to support their side and the current side of the fence they find themselves on.

A guy like Silentstriker, I remember, said over there this is unacceptable by Gibbs and he's said the same thing here - that I greatly respect, it shows he has a strong opinion against this form of racism and will not bend his opinion just because he finds himself on the opposite side of the fence of an argument.

Yeah exactly. It irritates me how people (as you said, I am not pointing towards any one in particular) just seem to side with the country they support and then give reasons towards that end. Not many people form opinions and stick with them regardless of what country x or country y might do.

 

[Matt79]

But if you consider stupidity in every case then most of murder cases will be reduced to "causing death due to neglicence or undeliberate action" based on stupidity of people and not conspiracy to kill.

Unless there's compelling evidence to the contrary, yeah. You're only "faced with a choice between stupidity and conspiracy" when there's some doubt. Or I should qualify my statement to say "stupidity and successful/undiscovered conspiracy". Conspiracies obviously do occur, but even if successful (and they're usually not) they rarely remain secret because of the stupidity of the people involved.

 

[Cevno]

This is the post you were responding to when you made your claim.


I'd like to hear what the secondary and circumstantial evidence is, that's all. And the fact that the charges against Bhajji doesn't prove that the allegations were a deliberate conspiracy - it just proves that the allegations might have been wrong and says nothing about the motivation of those making that allegation.

I had mistakenly replied to the wrong post there.
But even that is besides the point.You are basing your assumptions on different speculations or facts in the media and your intepretation of it and i am doing the same.
I can give you all the points on which these assumptions are based on and you can slag them off and you can give your points and i can slag them off.The fact of the matter is there is no credible evidence to prove either which way.

 

[Matt79]

I had mistakenly replied to the wrong post there.
But even that is besides the point.You are basing your assumptions on different speculations or facts in the media and your intepretation of it and i am doing the same.
I can give you all the points on which these assumptions are based on and you can slag them off and you can give your points and i can slag them off.The fact of the matter is there is no credible evidence to prove either which way.

Ok then. Shan't bother wasting time arguing with you further on this point then.

 

[silentstriker]

Oh, yea I agree. Personally, I think he said it. The problem is how they initially ruled against him without solid evidence. I wouldn't mind if Harbhajan gets banned for life, and I have no time or respect for a douchebag like him anyway (see sig.) He has always been an ass, and this whole incident has left me with absolutely zero respect for him. Not only do I think he said it, he probably meant it in the worst way too, rather than the heat of the moment. He's an ass.

Why are we arguing about this? I think we can all agree with my statement.

 

[Cevno]

Unless there's compelling evidence to the contrary, yeah. You're only "faced with a choice between stupidity and conspiracy" when there's some doubt. Or I should qualify my statement to say "stupidity and successful/undiscovered conspiracy". Conspiracies obviously do occur, but even if successful (and they're usually not) they rarely remain secret because of the stupidity of the people involved.

That just shows that the benefit of doubt goes to the accused.Therefore in this case if there is doubt that the evidence was doctored then it cannot be permissible.You cannot just permit it based on incompetence by top class(probably the world's best) broadcasters which there is very ittle chance of happening as shown in the same series.

 

[silentstriker]

The players were then told that, in the event of an Indian boycott, television network ESPN would sue CA for a figure believed to be $60 million for lost revenue - a sum that would take the Australian board the better part of a decade to recoup. ESPN holds the rights to broadcast the one-day series involving Australia, India and Sri Lanka throughout Asia.

CA could then, in turn, have counter-sued the International Cricket Council for damages, potentially setting in motion a chain of lawsuits that could have caused tremendous damage to the game, in terms of financial losses and strained relations.

Lawyers for CA also doubted that a racism charge would be upheld in a legal setting given the lack of evidence at hand, and attempted to convince the players to downgrade the charge in the hope of obtaining a conviction against Harbhajan and a possible suspension.

Ridiculous. They downgraded the charge because the CA caved into the BCCI's threat of boycott. My lack of respect for the BCCI has reached a new high.

 

[Cevno]

Ridiculous. They downgraded the charge because the CA caved into the BCCI's threat of boycott. My lack of respect for the BCCI has reached a new high.

That quote of yours is clearly over the top and is probably from an australian article.

 

[The Sean]

Ridiculous. They downgraded the charge because the CA caved into the BCCI's threat of boycott. My lack of respect for the BCCI has reached a new high.

Where's that quote from SS? I think that deserves greater investigation.

 

[silentstriker]

Where's that quote from SS? I think that deserves greater investigation.

Here.

 

[Cevno]

Sensationalist biased journalism by a newspaper.Hardly surprising.

 

[The Sean]

Here.

Thanks - interesting stuff in there. I guess we'll never know how true or otherwise most of that is, which is unfortunate, but both history and instinct would indicate that it's difficult to believe that there's no smoke without fire in this case.

 

[Bracken]

Thanks - interesting stuff in there. I guess we'll never know how true or otherwise most of that is, which is unfortunate, but both history and instinct would indicate that it's difficult to believe that there's no smoke without fire in this case.

Actually, I think that within a few days of the end of the ODI series we'll have a pretty good idea of how accurate it is- if not before.

Has anyone heard about this "Turn Your Back on Racism" thing that is supposedly being organised for some of the ODI games?

 

[RhyZa]

At the end of day this holier than thou attitude is all posturing. I'm an Indian, and I know Indians (especially those from past generations) can be very racist. Yet I also have relatives in England and Australia, who tell me stories that, for as many brown people as there are living there, makes me glad I don't live there.

With that said, there are varying levels of racism and the potential for damage it can cause, none of it should be accepted or tolerated, but it exists and people need to be aware of it. Maybe, out of all this, more people from both sides can learn how it affects the other, and become better people for it. There's this culture that I have witnessed on many occassions, when people are around those of their own kind they feel like it's ok to make hurtful or distasteful 'jokes' about other races. If they saw the other side of the extreme throughout history, like horrific visuals of genocide, I'm sure most of them wouldn't be laughing.

I guess I kind of strayed from the point but something as simple as a comment should be nipped in the bud, but at the same time those pointing fingers should also realize how prevalent it can be in our society, in more discrete yet much more damaging ways.

 

[pasag]

Ridiculous. They downgraded the charge because the CA caved into the BCCI's threat of boycott. My lack of respect for the BCCI has reached a new high.

I have been wondering though since the beginning of this saga, if India pulled out, would CA have grounds to claim damages against the BCCI for lost revenue? If a contract was signed, you'd surely think so.