Group A - India, England, Australia, West Indies

[honestbharani]

No, the main reason is that he has been batting at 5 for a majority of his ODIs since around 2002.

 

[tooextracool]

BIG difference between what I'm advocating and what the English selectors are doing.

Hoggard, Jones and, to a lesser extent, Cook are all proven test cricketers that are all still improving (at least Jones was until his injury). Importantly, they have the basics right and can therefore be relied upon to perform consistently in any form of cricket.

Whilst I'm not Hoggard's biggest fan, there is no denying his recent successes at test level and to suggest that he cant perform adequately in ODIs is nonsense

Unfortunately, Mahmood, Yardy etc had never had success at ANY reasonable level of cricket. Introduce promising players selectively from time to time by all means but putting them all in the team at one time with virtually no experienced back-up was doomed for failure.

As for experience in domestic comps, so what really? There is a massive difference between A-list and ODIs, let alone test cricket. The fact is that Eng has rarely produced a decent ODI team despite playing more domestic short format cricket than anywhere else in the world. Based on that stat alone, they should completely ignore the performances in these comps anyway.

Blind freddy could see that Yardy wasnt up to it no matter how successful he'd been at lower levels.

Likewise, the same guy could tell that Lewis was a better bet at this stage than Plunkett etc because he has all the prerequisite fundamentals.

Eng have rolled the dice with a plethora of selections based on hope and irrelevant experience and come up empty.

irrelevant experience? Im sorry but how is that different in Cooks case? Now you seem to be following the Bob Willis/Ian botham policy of your best ODI players being your test players. Its all been tried and tested, everyone from Michael Vaughan, Steve Harmison and Matthew Hoggard to Owais Shah and Nasser Hussain have all played tons of ODI cricket without being anything other than useless. Collingwood and Strauss are 2 other current players from the test side who can hardly claim to be doing wonders in the ODI side. The reason of course is that test and ODI cricket are completely different, you need different skills to succeed in both forms of the game. Some players simply dont have the skills to succeed in ODI cricket, its plain and simple.
And i really cant understand your argument with Mahmood and Yardy whatsoever. You are saying that neither of those 2 should have been selected because they have no virtually no experience, yet you go on rambling about how Cook and Simon Jones should be selected when both have barely played a limited overs game in their careers. Also umm have you even bothered to look at either Mahmood or Yardy's first class careers? Yardy has been averaging in excess of 50 in his last 2 seasons, Mahmood has been destroying opposition for the England A side for god knows how long(in the subcontinent as well as in the WI) in conditions that are considered to be the hardest for any bowler. Mahmood has certainly deserved his shot at test cricket, theres no question about that. And Yardy has done enough in 20/20 and FC cricket to deserve his shot in ODIs.

 

[tooextracool]

Not yet. He could become quite good though, and he's certainly the best option the West Indies have.

any bowler could become quite good though, the point though is that he isnt out of the ordinary at the moment, and i wouldnt be surprised at all if his career follows the Jermaine Lawson path minus the chucking.

 

[Scaly piscine]

BTW, how disappointing was it to see Bravo claim that catch? I always felt Windies were the most sporting team in these issues and now even their guys are doing this. Felt so sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP90SpCc9OU

Yea what's even more sad is that as usual he's been cleared, same happened when a Pakistani player illegally picked at the dirt on the ball (supposedly) away from the umpire in the ODI series against England.

 

[pietersenrocks]

BTW, how disappointing was it to see Bravo claim that catch? I always felt Windies were the most sporting team in these issues and now even their guys are doing this. Felt so sad.

Lara stopped him,he wasn't appeal.He thought umpire will give it not out.

 

[pietersenrocks]

Bad umpiring,cheating eventhough England win

 

[pietersenrocks]

Jamie Dalrymple got Gayle out LBW 3 times but umpire Darrel Harper don't want to give out.Lewis and Dalrymple both got Bravo out LBW.

 

[tooextracool]

BTW, how disappointing was it to see Bravo claim that catch? I always felt Windies were the most sporting team in these issues and now even their guys are doing this. Felt so sad.

I dont think he would have realized that it was a bump catch ITFP. things like that happen all the time in cricket and its not like Yardy or the umpire actually showed any doubt about whether the catch was clean or not.

 

[social]

irrelevant experience? Im sorry but how is that different in Cooks case? Now you seem to be following the Bob Willis/Ian botham policy of your best ODI players being your test players. Its all been tried and tested, everyone from Michael Vaughan, Steve Harmison and Matthew Hoggard to Owais Shah and Nasser Hussain have all played tons of ODI cricket without being anything other than useless. Collingwood and Strauss are 2 other current players from the test side who can hardly claim to be doing wonders in the ODI side. The reason of course is that test and ODI cricket are completely different, you need different skills to succeed in both forms of the game. Some players simply dont have the skills to succeed in ODI cricket, its plain and simple.
And i really cant understand your argument with Mahmood and Yardy whatsoever. You are saying that neither of those 2 should have been selected because they have no virtually no experience, yet you go on rambling about how Cook and Simon Jones should be selected when both have barely played a limited overs game in their careers. Also umm have you even bothered to look at either Mahmood or Yardy's first class careers? Yardy has been averaging in excess of 50 in his last 2 seasons, Mahmood has been destroying opposition for the England A side for god knows how long(in the subcontinent as well as in the WI) in conditions that are considered to be the hardest for any bowler. Mahmood has certainly deserved his shot at test cricket, theres no question about that. And Yardy has done enough in 20/20 and FC cricket to deserve his shot in ODIs.

You'll notice that I've omitted Strauss from my Eng team - as you say, some players just arent as suited for the game

Vaughan, Hussain etc were selected for years when past their prime and the former would probably still be in the team if even half fit. You'll see from my past comments that I dont rate him as any more than average in any form of the game these days and he wouldnt play for Eng again if I were a selector

As for Mahmood and Yardy - I dont need to look at their career records to tell whether they can play or not. One has great potential, the other will be nothing more than a county pro and anyone with a modicum of experience could tell that in 2 minutes.

That being said, even if they do deserve a shot, at least back them with some experienced players who can be relied upon to take up the slack if they fall flat on their faces. Unfortunately, the Eng selectors compound the problem by selecting a team full of Yardys and Mahmoods.

In relation to Cook, the guy averages nearly 55 in tests and 40 in ODIs with a strike rate of 85+ and yet he needs experience in picnic matches in Eng?

Eng need to get back to basics, pick an ODI team made up of a core of their best test players complemented by a smattering of athletic players with promise or tools appropriate to the one day game.

BTW,Oz has only won the last 2 wcs doing that very thing.

 

[aussie]

In relation to Cook, the guy averages nearly 55 in tests and 40 in ODIs with a strike rate of 85+ and yet he needs experience in picnic matches in Eng?.

All true, but thats just after a few ODI matches & looking at the way he plays it very similar style to Vaughan & Hussain who were excellent test batsman respectively over certain time periods

Eng need to get back to basics, pick an ODI team made up of a core of their best test players complemented by a smattering of athletic players with promise or tools appropriate to the one day game.

BTW,Oz has only won the last 2 wcs doing that very thing.

Unfortunately for England unlike Australia or South Africa, not all of their test players over the years & currently haven't been good enough to do well in the ODI game, so really England have to look at other so called ODI specialists to do the buisness.

 

[Scaly piscine]

All true, but thats just after a few ODI matches & looking at the way he plays it very similar style to Vaughan & Hussain who were excellent test batsman respectively over certain time periods

Never in a million years was Hussain an excellent Test batsman, even if you limit it to certain time periods (he failed to average above 40 for the year in consecutive years over a 9 year spell - that is poor) he was still only passable in a fairly rubbish era (as far as English and English batsmen were concerned). Fortunately he was a good captain and honourable enough to step aside when some quality batsmen came through.

 

[Slow Love™]

BTW, how disappointing was it to see Bravo claim that catch? I always felt Windies were the most sporting team in these issues and now even their guys are doing this. Felt so sad.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty bad, myself. There seems to be a prevailing sentiment that fielders can be fooled into thinking they've taken the catch when this happens, but in my experience, when a ball took an upward trajectory into my palms like that (because it hit the ground first), I had a fair idea I hadn't caught it. Generally, I think if you're unsure (as, IMO, Bravo must have been), I think you should say so.

Mind you, one of the worst incidents in this regard I've ever seen (after Rashid Latif's) was Roger Harper's, so it's not like the West Indians have always been angels in this regard up to now.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, I thought that was pretty bad, myself. There seems to be a prevailing sentiment that fielders can be fooled into thinking they've taken the catch when this happens, but in my experience, when a ball took an upward trajectory into my palms like that (because it hit the ground first), I had a fair idea I hadn't caught it. Generally, I think if you're unsure (as, IMO, Bravo must have been), I think you should say so.

Mind you, one of the worst incidents in this regard I've ever seen (after Rashid Latif's) was Roger Harper's, so it's not like the West Indians have always been angels in this regard up to now.

yeah, I must have qualified it with "in recent times". Certainly since around 98 or 99, I think Windies have been the most sporting team gng around. And I do think fielders know when it is a first bounce catch.

 

[winneer123]

cheating?????

what do u mean?

Bad umpiring,cheating eventhough England win

 

[winneer123]

never noticed

i never noticed that

Jamie Dalrymple got Gayle out LBW 3 times but umpire Darrel Harper don't want to give out.Lewis and Dalrymple both got Bravo out LBW.

 

[aussie]

Never in a million years was Hussain an excellent Test batsman, even if you limit it to certain time periods (he failed to average above 40 for the year in consecutive years over a 9 year spell - that is poor) he was still only passable in a fairly rubbish era (as far as English and English batsmen were concerned). Fortunately he was a good captain and honourable enough to step aside when some quality batsmen came through.

bit surprised to see he never averaged 40 for the year anytime, but fair enough.

 

[Scaly piscine]

bit surprised to see he never averaged 40 for the year anytime, but fair enough.

He averaged over 40 for a year 3/4 times I think, but not for consecutive years. So for any year he was decent he'd be crap the next (and previous) year.

 

[marc71178]

He may very well be the leading wicket taker but im willing to bet that he'll have the worst ER as well as the worst average.

How much will you bet?

 

[marc71178]

I dont think he would have realized that it was a bump catch ITFP. things like that happen all the time in cricket and its not like Yardy or the umpire actually showed any doubt about whether the catch was clean or not.

I have to agree 100% - there was no way in my mind he knew it had hit the ground - I don't think fielders are the best judge in that sort of situation.

 

[honestbharani]

maybe in this situation, as he himself said, he was diving and took his eyes off the ball a bit and therefore, perhaps he didnt't know. But generally, I think fielders tend to have a fairly decent idea of whether it carried or not.