Group A - India, England, Australia, West Indies

[aussie]

I like Bell opening though. He's barely ever failed up there and it allows a right-left combo at the top of the order, which can be very handy in certain conditions. I also think Trescothick could be an ideal number 3, because he scores at a good rate and can play spin well, which is handy if he bats deep into the innings.

You look to maximize player potential. Bell has opened 9 times and failed to reach double figures twice. Those are the only two times he has failed to reach 30 opening the batting. He has 3 fifties and 2 other 40+ scores opening. That's a pretty sharp success rate.

fair point, pretty much agreed, but i doubt whether the selectors would be thinking along those lines to bat Tres @ 3 & Bell opening permanently TBH.

 

[abu]

india has been terrible in ODIS this year if you think about it. May be its the curse of Ganguly lol

 

[silentstriker]

Man, our pace attack is so promising. Its awesome, I love what our future looks like.

 

[tooextracool]

india has been terrible in ODIS this year if you think about it. May be its the curse of Ganguly lol

you really have to question the logic of the selectors when it comes to Powar. I mean at least if they were playing in Australia or England you could somewhat understand the logic of only playing 1 spinner(even then it would be a stupid move considering hes better than the pace bowlers combined), but to not play him at home because harbhajan is in the side is bordering lunacy IMO.

 

[Gajanayake]

you really have to question the logic of the selectors when it comes to Powar. I mean at least if they were playing in Australia or England you could somewhat understand the logic of only playing 1 spinner(even then it would be a stupid move considering hes better than the pace bowlers combined), but to not play him at home because harbhajan is in the side is bordering lunacy IMO.

Yeah I agree especially when you consider the Aussies wre always far more likely to have problems agianst spin than our pace...
Mongia only went for 4 an over...Harbhajan was more expensive today but still under 5 an over.......Powar should have played IMO.
However, I still think the Assies would have won - they probably would not have cantered home by as much.

 

[Turbinator]

Man, our pace attack is so promising. Its awesome, I love what our future looks like.

Yup SS, now I completely understand what you mean, seriously I agree that our pace attack has no future and very minimum potential!!! You've been proven right!

But what's wrong is that India has lots of Vegetarians, we need strong, built meat eaters!!!

 

[tooextracool]

I like Bell opening though. He's barely ever failed up there and it allows a right-left combo at the top of the order, which can be very handy in certain conditions. I also think Trescothick could be an ideal number 3, because he scores at a good rate and can play spin well, which is handy if he bats deep into the innings.

You look to maximize player potential. Bell has opened 9 times and failed to reach double figures twice. Those are the only two times he has failed to reach 30 opening the batting. He has 3 fifties and 2 other 40+ scores opening. That's a pretty sharp success rate.

Personally i think id rather have Trescothick opening to be honest. You need at least one player capable of taking advantage of the fielding restrictions. Bell & Strauss might have had success in this tournament, but neither are particularly good when it comes to hitting over the top.
Also Bell has a better record at 3 then he does opening, so maximizing potential at the top isnt a claim that can be backed up. I think id have Flintoff at 4 and Pietersen at 5. While Flintoff didnt exactly bat very well this tournament i think hes a much better player when he has the time to get his eye in. Pietersen on the other hand has simply reaffirmed by argument that hes better off coming in when the ball has lost his shine and actually has a fixed idea as to what he needs to do.
I also think that the left-right hand combination is extremely overrated in Englands case. its only really a left-right hand combination when you actually run singles. As such with a vast majoirty of the top and middle order its either 4 or nought(Strauss seems to have mastered that). Its all fine and good to do that when the bowling is poor, but against quality bowlers, you're only going to get bogged down and eventually do something stupid. Its a bit like the problem Rahul Dravid used to have when he first started playing ODI cricket.

 

[magsi23]

Yup SS, now I completely understand what you mean, seriously I agree that our pace attack has no future and very minimum potential!!! You've been proven right!

But what's wrong is that India has lots of Vegetarians, we need strong, built meat eaters!!!

Pathan is meat eater mate lol

 

[PhoenixFire]

That's my problem with people putting KP so high up the order in tests and one dayers. He is much more effective when the ball is soft and isn't swinging, and when the bowlers are more tired, than against the new ball.

 

[Turbinator]

Pathan is meat eater mate lol

So is Mohd Sami! The thing is we have a lower ratio of meat eaters than most of the other countries like England, Australia, Pakistan. In other words, these other countries get to choose from a wide variety of meat eaters compared to us.

 

[Xuhaib]

So is Mohd Sami! The thing is we have a lower ratio of meat eaters than most of the other countries like England, Australia, Pakistan. In other words, these other countries get to choose from a wide variety of meat eaters compared to us.

There are over 200 million muslims in India so this gives you easily more meat eaters then the countries you have mentioned.

 

[Turbinator]

There are over 200 million muslims in India so this gives you easily more meat eaters then the countries you have mentioned.

Notice I was talking about the ratio, not the total number.

Anyways, I am very depressed at the moment, after another heartbreaking Indian loss. I really thought and believed the men in blue would come back with a fighting spirit and really learn from their failiures and silence all their critics. But no, that was not the case, they looked very very lazy and casual in the field. I really am dissapointed!

 

[adharcric]

Stop overreacting. Before this match, the batting was crap and the bowlers were good. Today, it was the reverse although the batting wasn't really special either.
It really is a problem that we can't fire on all cylinders as a team, but stop acting as if Pathan, Munaf and Sreesanth are incapable of bowling well.

 

[Turbinator]

Stop overreacting. Before this match, the batting was crap and the bowlers were good. Today, it was the reverse although the batting wasn't really special either.
It really is a problem that we can't fire on all cylinders as a team, but stop acting as if Pathan, Munaf and Sreesanth are incapable of bowling well.

Are you talking to me?

 

[shortpitched713]

Man, our pace attack is so promising. Its awesome, I love what our future looks like.

Talk about kicking a man while he's down.

 

[tooextracool]

Yeah I agree especially when you consider the Aussies wre always far more likely to have problems agianst spin than our pace...
Mongia only went for 4 an over...Harbhajan was more expensive today but still under 5 an over.......Powar should have played IMO.
However, I still think the Assies would have won - they probably would not have cantered home by as much.

That maybe a case, but i think it would have been a lot harder if there was quality spin from both ends. India batted poorly as well, and how many times does it have to be said, Scoring 50s and 60s is not good enough in ODI cricket. When you get in you really have no excuse to be getting out without scoring 100 and the likes of Sehwag and Dravid simply dont do it often enough. Just taking a peek at Dravids ODI record, 72 50s and 12 hundreds is an astonishingly poor conversion rate for anyone batting in the top 3. Its acceptable if you are inzamam and you bat at 4 or 5 for most of your career, but you have no business to be batting up the order if you cant get big scores. As such if Dravid and/or Sehwag had gone on to score big, Raina and co wouldnt have had to come in on a difficult track and try to score quickly from ball one.

 

[adharcric]

Are you talking to me?

You're not the only one.

 

[adharcric]

Talk about kicking a man while he's down.

Well said.

 

[tooextracool]

Flintoff - I'm not sure whther I wanted him to bowl today, sure it's good he's getting fit, but in a game that held little but pride, was it worth taking risks? Doesn't matter in the end I guess, but still.

Theres nothing like bowling in the middle. As long as he didnt bowl a long spell it doesnt matter and as such if you are bowling in the nets then it isnt too much more risky bowling 2-3 over spells in internationals. Certainly helps in terms of getting him match practice.

Read - Interesting, when GJ was the undisputed number one, people were calling for Read as the ODI keeper at least. He did well at tests, but has been exposed in this tournament. For all the keepers that have been suggested, I reckon there's no chance of anyone but Geraint taking his place. Specially as it's them two in the Ashes squad. Geraint will start at Brisbane, you heard it here first.

I really dont understand what has happened to read. This is a completely different character from the one that we saw 2 years ago, hes throwing his wicket away as soon as he gets in and the quality of his keeping has deteriorated dramatically. Needless to say no matter how poor read has been in ODIs it does not change the fact that in tests hes still a better option than Geraint.

General - our ODi side is a shambles, but our openers have done a decent job in the last two games, and I'm very pleased with Bell, who things are going very well for since being left out the Sri Lanka Test series.

To be honest i dont think theyve done very well. Getting 40s and 50s as an opener is not good enough, you need to score three figures. I mean when was the last time an England player that was not called Trescothick scored a century? It really infuriates me when players get starts and throw it all away. You can talk about the middle order collapse against Australia, but the middle order doesnt collapse without the openers getting out. Its a different ball game when 2 new batsmen are at the crease compared to one settled player and one new one IMO.

 

[tooextracool]

a bit late but what the heck, KP KP KP, big man innings today, who dare to doubt his superb talent. Its victories like this that keep convincing me that once England are at full-strenght they can have a strong ODI side that will challenge at the WC.

Clearly, i mean they finally win a game in ODIs and once again KP does so single handedly. Really seems like they cant win a game unless KP or Flintoff do it themselves.