Group A - India, England, Australia, West Indies

[Magrat Garlick]

He's Indian?

Rephrased now. *sigh*

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Rephrased now. *sigh*

Pedantry keeps you sharp.

 

[Dravid]

Gayle got man of the match. Don't think he deserved it. He did great all round but KP was the man for the MoM award.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Gayle got man of the match. Don't think he deserved it. He did great all round but KP was the man for the MoM award.

Gayle deserved to win a Man of the Match award IMO, if not for Pietersen's matchwinning knock. That said, England was cruising until Gayle stepped in the with ball.

Pietersen would have been my MoM, but no qualms about Gayle getting it.

 

[Jamee999]

Trescothick*
Strauss
Bell
Pietersen
Flintoff
Collingwood
Pothas/Read/Jones/Prior +
Dalyrumple
Mahmood
Harmison
Anderson

Ultimately, at full strength, our ODI side just needs rounding from the team today.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Trescothick*
Strauss
Bell
Pietersen
Flintoff
Collingwood
Pothas/Read/Jones/Prior/Foster +
Dalyrumple
Mahmood
Harmison
Anderson

Ultimately, at full strength, our ODI side just needs rounding from the team today.

Throwing another name to the keeping hat. And Lewis over either Saj or Steve Wayward-Harmison. He's our Bradshaw.

 

[Pratters]

Throwing another name to the keeping hat. And Lewis over either Saj or Steve Wayward-Harmison. He's our Bradshaw.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Trescothick*
Strauss
Bell
Pietersen
Flintoff
Collingwood
Pothas/Read/Jones/Prior +
Dalyrumple
Mahmood
Harmison
Anderson

Ultimately, at full strength, our ODI side just needs rounding from the team today.

Strauss
Bell
Trescothick
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Pothas/Read/Jones/Prior +
Dalrymple
Giles
Lewis
Anderson

IMO.

 

[steds]

Samuel_Vimes - Try being less English, hey?

Indeed.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Indeed.

Norway is practically England except more prosperous, a better football team and hotter women.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Indeed.

Meh. Until Norway are allowed to field a team with

Mohammad
Mahmood
Ali
Ali
Mehmood
Khurram
Shehzad
Ali
Umar
Zulfiqar
Zafar

I think I'll have to stick to England.

 

[TT Boy]

Real quality knock from KP and he did his native country a real favour. South Africa would prefer the West Indies any day of the week over a possible tie with Australia (or even the homeboys India). Though the West Indies only have themselves to blame for the loss, three hundred was more than a just a distinct possibility and their new ball bowling was awful.

 

[PY]

Look, there's no need to ruin my party.

In the end, all bets were paying >3 with Nafees paying >5, so they're all value.

Nafees needed a ton in his last knock to top score for Bangladesh and he did it. Pietersen then needed 89 in his last knock to top score and he did it. So that makes me very

How much did you actually place on them/win?

 

[a massive zebra]

Well Lewis should be playing every game, that much is obvious. I do however think most of the problem lies with the batting, England have been knocked out of the CT because of their batting basically. ODIs are a batsman's game anyway so most of the responsibility does lie with them, unfortunately most of England's batsmen either lack a brain or don't seem to want to take responsibility or both.

Yes I would not disagree with anything you said there. There are at least three issues with our batting that require attention.

Firstly, a brief look at the makeup of some more successful teams, like Australia or India, will reveal that they have three or four power players (i.e. Gilchrist, Ponting, Symonds or Sehwag, Tendulkar and Dhoni) and a couple of nurdlers. England can boast just two such players (Pietersen & Flintoff), and if they fail we are reliant on less destructive players such as Bell or Collingwood who cannot hope to establish a total in excess of 300, which is badly needed to be competitive if we insist on selecting these profligate fast bowlers.

Secondly, Fletcher and co often select batsmen for ODI sides based on championship form alone, seemingly oblivious to the fact that the demands of the two games vary considerably. A prime example of this is Yardy, who has looked totally out of his depth as a batsman in his ODI career so far, hardly surprising when one considers that he has never made a century and averages barely 20 in a 100 match OD career with Sussex. One can only imagine he was picked as a reward for runs scored in the championship - I highly doubt bowling considerations secured his selection as he hardly bowls for Sussex in either form of the game.

Thirdly, the team has suffered from poor analysis of conditions. England never seem to know what the right total to aim for is in any given match they bat first in.

 

[Goughy]

Hakon, a list of the top wickettakers gives some idea of the players but it is far from a comprehensive analysis.

Rather than just top wickettakers, the below should be a more indepth look at potential players. It includes some and excludes other from the top wickettakers list.

The Criteria (based on 2006 Engish Season List A Averages)

- Av 1 or more wickets per game
- Economy rate of less than 5
- Average of less than 25
- Min 5 games
- At least one 4 or 5 wicket haul in the season

English Qualified that Fulfil the Above Criteria

RJ Kirtley
JTA Bruce
GJ Batty
MCJ Ball
CB Keegan
DG Cork
G Chapple
J Lewis
TJ Phillips
AJ Harris
CT Peploe
DS Harrison
MA Ealham
CT Tremlett

The attached thumbnail includes additional data such as age, bowling style and career List A average

Interestingly the below all have career averages below 25.
RJ Kirtley
JTA Bruce
CB Keegan
TJ Phillips
CT Peploe
CT Tremlett

Fair to say that Kirtley and Tremlett need to be given due consideration. Both are ahead of Plunkett and Saj, in my opinion.

 

[superkingdave]

tbf Mahmood's domestic List A record for this year (which is what should be considered when comparing these players) is 9 wickets@13.22 with an ER of 3.79 from 5 games

 

[Goughy]

tbf Mahmood's domestic List A record for this year (which is what should be considered when comparing these players) is 9 wickets@13.22 with an ER of 3.79 from 5 games

Ah but his season List A is

SI Mahmood__12__79.2__6__440__16__27.50__3-16__-__-__29.7__5.54__LANCS/ENG

Average of 27.5 @ 5.5 per over.

Fair enough that the England games affect his record but they are still List A games. He still did not take 4 or more wickets in an innings (which most top bowlers did).

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Ah but his season List A is

SI Mahmood__12__79.2__6__440__16__27.50__3-16__-__-__29.7__5.54__LANCS/ENG

Average of 27.5 @ 5.5 per over.

Fair enough that the England games affect his record but they are still List A games. He still did not take 4 or more wickets in an innings (which most top bowlers did).

A little harsh, considering that those other bowlers didn't play more than half their games this season against Test class opposition.

 

[superkingdave]

Ah but his season List A is

SI Mahmood__12__79.2__6__440__16__27.50__3-16__-__-__29.7__5.54__LANCS/ENG

Average of 27.5 @ 5.5 per over.

Fair enough that the England games affect his record but they are still List A games. He still did not take 4 or more wickets in an innings (which most top bowlers did).

All the other players you are comparing are based on purely domestic records, so why should you not compare that to Saj's purely domestic record?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Yes I would not disagree with anything you said there. There are at least three issues with our batting that require attention.

Firstly, a brief look at the makeup of some more successful teams, like Australia or India, will reveal that they have three or four power players (i.e. Gilchrist, Ponting, Symonds or Sehwag, Tendulkar and Dhoni) and a couple of nurdlers. England can boast just two such players (Pietersen & Flintoff), and if they fail we are reliant on less destructive players such as Bell or Collingwood who cannot hope to establish a total in excess of 300, which is badly needed to be competitive if we insist on selecting these profligate fast bowlers.

Secondly, Fletcher and co often select batsmen for ODI sides based on championship form alone, seemingly oblivious to the fact that the demands of the two games vary considerably. A prime example of this is Yardy, who has looked totally out of his depth as a batsman in his ODI career so far, hardly surprising when one considers that he has never made a century and averages barely 20 in a 100 match OD career with Sussex. One can only imagine he was picked as a reward for runs scored in the championship - I highly doubt bowling considerations secured his selection as he hardly bowls for Sussex in either form of the game.

Thirdly, the team has suffered from poor analysis of conditions. England never seem to know what the right total to aim for is in any given match they bat first in.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the makeup of England's batting lineup. Strauss is not a nurdler, Trescothick isn't and they both score quickly if they hang around, then you've got Flintoff and KP. It is not the case that they regularly bat out the overs but lose anyway, England get bowled out repeatedly (batting first particularly, I seem to recall they have a particularly awful stat with respect to getting bowled out in Asia) and that gives them virtually no chance of winning. England also have too many weak batting links, like other teams have a keeper who averages 30+, England have Read who's a walking wicket. Then there's Yardy who's done nicely as a bowler but has done nothing to suggest he's any better than a Giles with the bat.