Group A - Australia, Bangladesh, England, New Zealand

[Spark]

In 2011 SA lost against England in the group stages ftr. They had a rubbish lower-middle with Morne van Wyk and Robin Petersen expected to finish games with the bat.

If late-game collapses happen to SA more often it's because since Klusner retired they haven't had a consistent player in the 6/7/8 slots. Very top-heavy batting order in ODIs

England in that WC were hilarious though.

 

[Flem274*]

The dropped catch from Behardien(?) in the semi looks way worse in retrospect too because the McCullum cameo turned the chase from needing something special to chase 343 in 40 overs on a "bowl full, take wickets" ground to a situation where NZ could settle in and knock it around rather than constantly need to take risks. It wasn't a game where SA were on top until blowing it at the end.

When they dropped the catch they almost sealed their fate.

Anyway England at home are quality. Definitely up the favourites ladder. They've been a force at home since before the world cup.

 

[OverratedSanity]

England in that WC were hilarious though.

Most entertaining team of that wc by far. Did well against the better teams in the group (tying against India and beating SA) inexplicably lost against minnows Ireland and BD and almost lost against WI before somehow managing to beat them and qualify for the knockouts. All those matches were thrillers too iirc.

 

[Flem274*]

Lol

Luke Ronchi set to open for Black Caps again as they seek power hitting option at the top

didn't we do this last champions trophy, played in england?

glenn phillips does that job for auckland. should have blooded him in the world cup practice tournament given he's a good chance of being there in 2020. no one will remember if he has a stinker because its on during the middle of the night in winter.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

South Africa has a better team now than the 2015 CWC while Australia, NZ and India have worse teams.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I'd rather have CDG as opener than Ronchi in the CT. Anyway hopefully Latham and Broom score lots of runs so there is no place for Luke R.

 

[Black_Warrior]

South Africa has a better team now than the 2015 CWC while Australia, NZ and India have worse teams.

Not Australia. Still by far the most well rounded and balanced ODI side. Their batting can match the firepower of that of England/South Africa and have easily the best ODI bowling attack.

This is exactly how i would rate the WC 2015 side as well.

Agree about India and NZ though.

 

[StephenZA]

Not Australia. Still by far the most well rounded and balanced ODI side. Their batting can match the firepower of that of England/South Africa and have easily the best ODI bowling attack.

This is exactly how i would rate the WC 2015 side as well.

Agree about India and NZ though.

How do Aus have easily the best bowling attack... obviously Starc, what else makes them better compared to SA (who have Tahir)?

 

[Black_Warrior]

Yes I agree. SA's few chokes have tended to be more costly though.

I think it's how the narrative is shaped.

Pakistan dropped Tendulkar 5 times in WC 2011 semis. I don't hear the same conversation about them.

These things happen in cricket. Is it a choke? Yes. Even the very best sometimes crumble under pressure and it can happen to any team.

The problem I have is how it dominates every conversation about the South African ODI side and you rarely see a proper analysis of their limitations as an ODI team
AB's underperformance to an extent.
Amla's struggles in WC
Steyn's limitations as a LO bowler
DeKock started with a bang in 2013 but 2014-15 he was having a torrid time and got dropped. People forget that now because he is awesome again
The absolutely horrendous average their lower order of Miller, Behardien, Duminy had while batting second. I mean this is probably the weakest lower middle order among the top 5 teams.

I mean with that many holes in a team, we should be able to go past the 'choke' tag when assessing their World Cup performances

 

[Black_Warrior]

How do Aus have easily the best bowling attack... obviously Starc, what else makes them better compared to SA (who have Tahir)?

Starc
Cummins
Hazelwood
Zampa

These are 4 of the best LO bowlers at the moment.

I don't think Australia have lost a single series where they have fielded this bowling attack

If you compare with South Africa

Morkel
Rabada
Morris
Tahir

Rabada in ODIs is nowhere near the bowler he is in Tests.

Starc over Morkel
Hazelwood/Cummins over Morris

Tahir over Zampa

 

[StephenZA]

Starc
Cummins
Hazelwood
Zampa

These are 4 of the best LO bowlers at the moment.

I don't think Australia have lost a single series where they have fielded this bowling attack

Tahir, Rabada, Morris, Morkel. And Pretorius is a quality death bowler.
So for me it is not "obviously" better...

 

[Howe_zat]

England in that WC were hilarious though.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/wor...nd-s-matches-have-been-most-entertaining.html

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Not Australia. Still by far the most well rounded and balanced ODI side. Their batting can match the firepower of that of England/South Africa and have easily the best ODI bowling attack.

This is exactly how i would rate the WC 2015 side as well.

Agree about India and NZ though.

Nah, Australia got whitewashed away in both South Africa and NZ and even lost an ODI against Pakistan. Their 2015 side was better.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Zampa is pretty mediocre. Is worse than all the spinners except those who play for England. Maxwell and Travis Head as almost as good as Zampa.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Nah, Australia got whitewashed away in both South Africa and NZ and even lost an ODI against Pakistan. Their 2015 side was better.

Come on that was Australia A. This is a full strength Australia side. And didn't they also beat New Zealand 3-0 and India 4-1 last year? And those weren't even a full strength side if I'm not mistaken?

and even lost an ODI against Pakistan

This is funny. They won 4-1 and it's not good enough.

In that case how about this

The World Cup winning Australin team lost 1 game against South Africa in 2014, who lost their World Cup game against Pakistan.

If winning 4-1 is going to be a criticism, then we have a problem.

 

[harsh.ag]

Zampa is pretty mediocre. Is worse than all the spinners except those who play for England. Maxwell and Travis Head as almost as good as Zampa.

He's definitely fallen off. 8 wickets in his last 12 ODIs, SR of 69, Econ of 5.65

 

[Spark]

I don't see how the current Aus side is better than the 2015 WC one. Clarke was crocked, yes, but you'd still take him over Travis Head, you'd take Haddin over Wade and MJ over Cummins.

 

[marc71178]

All of the punditry (e.g. the Sky ex-player clique) I've read and heard have been saying things like, ''England are favourites''; England's batting has been hyped-up to hyperbolic proportions. Bowling weaknesses have been conveniently ignored. But heck, I might be wrong; England might beat every team by huge margins and go on and win the thing. I just do not see how anyone can rank England's chances significantly above three or four of the other sides.

Bookmakers are also making England favourites (and not just UK-based ones where the patriotic pound plays an effect) - guess they're all wrong as well then?

 

[S.Kennedy]

Bookmakers are also making England favourites (and not just UK-based ones where the patriotic pound plays an effect) - guess they're all wrong as well then?

We'll see.

 

[straw man]

didn't we do this last champions trophy, played in england?

glenn phillips does that job for auckland. should have blooded him in the world cup practice tournament given he's a good chance of being there in 2020. no one will remember if he has a stinker because its on during the middle of the night in winter.

To the first, yes that's what makes this especially funny, that not only has Ronchi scored a glorious 303 runs at 11.2 from 27 innings since 1 Feb 2015*, but we tried the exact same plan with him opening last time and he did even less, as per the article.

Ronchi was tried as an opener in 2013 in the leadup to the same tournament but foundered against the moving ball. After scores of 0, 2, and 22 against England, he made 7 against Australia, 14 against Sri Lanka and 2 against England as New Zealand narrowly missed the semifinals.

* a conveniently chosen date but it underscores the point

It's been done to death, but yes the selectors really pushed themselves into a corner by not giving another wicketkeeper a chance. Best case is that Latham opens in the tournament, should do ok if he's in form and the required run rates aren't too high.