Great Dhoni

[Uppercut]

The only doubts are whether he will continue to do such a thing. Dhoni may currently have a case for being in the XI, but it's a different matter to having ever proven himself conclusively a Test-class wicketkeeper-batsman.

If Karthik has indeed been as poor as he apparently has (and if the third-in-line continues to be Parthiv Patel) then there's no real likelihood of there ever being a better option. But if some wicketkeeper-batsman appears in a year's time and starts tearing-up like Karthik did early in his First-Class career, then the problems start to come-up again, if Dhoni is averaging in the mid-20s in Tests.

That's all very well, but who else would you have as captain if Kumble goes?

 

[Richard]

Ganguly.

Nah, seriously - it'd be hard to look past Tendulkar for mine. About the only other player to have a convincing long-term place apparently guaranteed.

And TBF, I don't think Kumble is showing any signs of fitness deterioration, is he? As long as he's not, he should hopefully be able to keep bowling well. It's not like his action is physically straining.

 

[pup11]

That's all very well, but who else would you have as captain if Kumble goes?

I think India would just have to take a punt with Dhoni similar to the one RSA took with Smith when they appointed him as captain, so it would be upto Dhoni thereafter to prove himself worthy enough to lead the test side.

 

[Uppercut]

Ganguly.

Nah, seriously - it'd be hard to look past Tendulkar for mine. About the only other player to have a convincing long-term place apparently guaranteed.

And TBF, I don't think Kumble is showing any signs of fitness deterioration, is he? As long as he's not, he should hopefully be able to keep bowling well. It's not like his action is physically straining.

I don't believe Tendulkar wants to captain again, he didn't have a great time of it in the mid-nineties, the second time around he didn't seem to want it at all and when the captaincy was up for grabs again last year, he didn't seem remotely interested. Besides, Dhoni is a much better captain.

As for Kumble, i don't think he'll keep the captaincy much longer. Not to mention the fact that he's really rather bad at it...

 

[Precambrian]

Yep. Dhoni's the only guy with the 'right' mix at the moment. Enough international experience, although a tad short of test exp, and with lot of years to come. Plus he's shown what he can do with the ODI side, so his credentials are ok if only he could improve his batting in tests too.

 

[Richard]

I think India would just have to take a punt with Dhoni similar to the one RSA took with Smith when they appointed him as captain, so it would be upto Dhoni thereafter to prove himself worthy enough to lead the test side.

Smith had proven himself a much better Test cricketer by 2003 than Dhoni has by now though. That's the difference.

 

[Richard]

I don't believe Tendulkar wants to captain again, he didn't have a great time of it in the mid-nineties, the second time around he didn't seem to want it at all and when the captaincy was up for grabs again last year, he didn't seem remotely interested.

True, and if so that's quite understandable. If not Tendulkar, I suppose you'd just have to go series-by-series.

As for Kumble, i don't think he'll keep the captaincy much longer. Not to mention the fact that he's really rather bad at it...

Bad captain who deserves his place, or captain who's a bad player and doesn't deserve his place?

One can at least be partially resolved by committee - no amount of good players around you can turn a bad player into a good one.

 

[Precambrian]

I was not talking only about the Indian situation, i was generalising such a situation where there maybe two different captains, playing under each other in different formats, then there shouldn't any real problems as long as they both are willing to work together in the interest of their team.

It's not about the captains as such, what about the players? Great captains create loyalty among their players, and having swap caps will only create confusion and divided loyalty among players. It's no rocket science. Basic school management principle. Unity of authority.

 

[Precambrian]

Smith had proven himself a much better Test cricketer by 2003 than Dhoni has by now though. That's the difference.

Test cricketer? Yes. Test captain? No. Smith evolved to a good captain only recently. I think comparing captaincy skills, Dhoni is better than Smith by what we have seen now.

 

[Uppercut]

True, and if so that's quite understandable. If not Tendulkar, I suppose you'd just have to go series-by-series.

Bad captain who deserves his place, or captain who's a bad player and doesn't deserve his place?

One can at least be partially resolved by committee - no amount of good players around you can turn a bad player into a good one.

That's the thing though, Dhoni absolutely deserves his place after Karthik's balls-up in Sri Lanka. Very few feel he should be dropped. Indeed, he deserves to be in the test side for an extended run. If at any stage he doesn't deserve his place in the side, then that's okay- pick a new captain. There is no obvious, stand-out, risk-free alternative. Dhoni IMO is by far the best option.

 

[Richard]

Test cricketer? Yes. Test captain? No. Smith evolved to a good captain only recently.

Captaincy skills is not the issue (though remember Smith had captained more often than he had been in the ranks) - the issue is about the player's place in the side. Smith performed well in Test cricket pretty much from the start of his career and continued to do so up to his appointment as captain. Dhoni has not, and questions being asked about his Test-playing skills in the near future are far from OOTQ.

No-one doubts Dhoni's captaincy skills. The question is if he deserves his place in the side, and you cannot captain a side you do not merit a place in.

 

[Richard]

That's the thing though, Dhoni absolutely deserves his place after Karthik's balls-up in Sri Lanka. Very few feel he should be dropped. Indeed, he deserves to be in the test side for an extended run. If at any stage he doesn't deserve his place in the side, then that's okay- pick a new captain. There is no obvious, stand-out, risk-free alternative. Dhoni IMO is by far the best option.

How often do people drop the man who's been captaining recently? Especially if they're a good captain.

See Vaughan in ODIs. And several cases besides.

 

[Precambrian]

Captaincy skills is not the issue (though remember Smith had captained more often than he had been in the ranks) - the issue is about the player's place in the side. Smith performed well in Test cricket pretty much from the start of his career and continued to do so up to his appointment as captain. Dhoni has not, and questions being asked about his Test-playing skills in the near future are far from OOTQ.

No-one doubts Dhoni's captaincy skills. The question is if he deserves his place in the side, and you cannot captain a side you do not merit a place in.

How that reminds me of an Ashes winning English captain!

I'd agree with your points had Dhoni been in the side 'purely' as a batsman. He is a keeper, and has proved to be test class over the years, so that'd cement his place in the first place. Secondly his average of 30, though not ground breaking, is not exactly poor for a No.7 either. Plus he's shown the willingness to work on his batting since he became one dayers captain. So i expect him to carry on that to tests as well. If he averages around 35 to 40 with the bat, which doesn't look too optimistic, and continues his good form behind the stumps, which he's done all while now, and captains well, what's the problem?

 

[Mard]

i am really getting tired of these thread about indian players. "great dhoni" lol. why are indian players treated like God by indians??? they are human beings !!

 

[ret]

He shouldn't have been burnt out when the time came, though. If he knew he was going to have problems playing so much cricket, he should have skipped the Kitply Cup.

Yeah, i guess he forget to check the burnout meter thats on his body

I guess the reading after the IPL was 91.87% so he should have skipped the Kitply Cup anticipating the reading to go up to 96.24% after he played both the Kitply and Asia Cup

If he had skipped the Kitply Cup and played the Asia Cup then the reading would have been at 88.34% allowing him to play the tests series against SL, after which the reading would have been 94.89% giving him the perfect opportunity to take a break from ODI series

And may be then some of the guys who are complaining abt him skiping tests would be complaining abt him skipping the ODIs and saying 'how can he deserve to be the ODI captain when he is skipping ODIs for tests'

In short, It's his personal decision to decide on his break

 

[ret]

I don understand what the big fuss is here..


You pick the best side, and the best player from that side to be captain..


As long as Dhoni is deserving of a place in the XI, I have no qualms if he is appointed captain. He is obviously the best choice in our first choice XI as of today, leaving out the big 4 and Kumble...


And him taking a break from the test series was a very practical move. The ODI side needs him more than the test side currently... So he put the ODI team above the test team for this one instance.. Doesn't mean he doesn't give tests the same weightage he gives to ODIs...

well said

 

[Richard]

How that reminds me of an Ashes winning English captain!

So? We're talking about Mahendra Dhoni - Michael Vaughan's case is 100% irrelevant. There is no connection between the two of them.

I'd agree with your points had Dhoni been in the side 'purely' as a batsman. He is a keeper, and has proved to be test class over the years, so that'd cement his place in the first place. Secondly his average of 30, though not ground breaking, is not exactly poor for a No.7 either. Plus he's shown the willingness to work on his batting since he became one dayers captain. So i expect him to carry on that to tests as well. If he averages around 35 to 40 with the bat, which doesn't look too optimistic, and continues his good form behind the stumps, which he's done all while now, and captains well, what's the problem?

There isn't one - if he can indeed do that. However there's currently a perfectly possible possibility that things will instead go the other way and if they do, even with his good wicketkeeping, his place will become questionable to untenable.

And giving the captaincy to someone when such questions are yet to be answered is not wise in my book.

 

[Precambrian]

I was referring to Mike Brearley. He hardly justified his place due to his batting.

 

[Precambrian]

i am really getting tired of these thread about indian players. "great dhoni" lol. why are indian players treated like God by indians??? they are human beings !!

I think that's a personal thing and as long as it does not involve harming others, it is fine. And no need to generalise it.

 

[Perm]

He has a fair point though. I'm a massive Dhoni fan, firmly beleive he's the best ODI batsman in the world at the moment and a very fine skipper but the adulation he receives (mostly from Indians) is ridiculous, but typical of a country where top cricketers are treated like demi-gods.