Garry Sobers vs Len Hutton

[Johan]

See this is when you say "Go suck an egg."

Pitch was probably no worse than the 365* or 226 wicket tbh

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Sobers. Hutton biggest advantage are opening and batting probably in harder conditions and even considering those I wouldn’t put him above Sir Garry.

 

[kyear2]

.

Sobers's SR is around 52-53, I don't think that's enough to claim advantage over a slower striking opener, if it was 70 like Viv or 60 like Lara, then sure.

Pretty big gap between 53 and 38.

 

[Coronis]

Pretty big gap between 53 and 38.

Yeah Sobers bats at Labuschagne pace.

 

[Johan]

Pretty big gap between 53 and 38.

It's not as big as one expects, considering the difference between The West Indies's Batting culture and England or South Africa's batting culture.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I think batsmen were generally a lot slower back then. Sobers would probably score faster if playing in the modern era.

 

[shortpitched713]

It's not as big as one expects, considering the difference between The West Indies's Batting culture and England or South Africa's batting culture.

I don't care about why, but definitely Sobers turned many more matches. You have to willingly go to the aggressive, dominating gear to do that.

 

[Johan]

I don't care about why, but definitely Sobers turned many more matches.

that's just fanfiction, both guys won plenty of games.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

The tougher home conditions were really only the last 5 years of his career. Sobers also batted more years in the 50's than Hutton.

Re the bowlers, Sobers faced all the pacers that Hutton did, plus Trueman, Lillee, Snow, Statham, Fazal etc.

Think Sobers also may have faced more of Davidson and Benaud, though can't say I actually checked.

He also crushes him on s/r and iconic innings.

Sobers faced Benaud and Davidson in the famous 60-61 series.

 

[Johan]

that's just fanfiction, both guys won plenty of games.

I'm gonna add, Hutton did indeed have a dominating gear, the idea that he did not is ludricous, he simply didn't take as many risks as Sobers and often sealed away his strokemaking to do what the team needed the most, which once again, comes down to difference between the batting philosophies of West Indies and England.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

On a whole in terms of bowlers they faced there is no comparison. Sobers faced better. From Australia in his first series: Lindwall, Miller, Johnston, Johnson and Benaud at 19 years old. We are not even including the world tests vs young tearaway Lillee. He would've faced Alan Davidson later as well. Vs Pakistan Fazal. Vs India the likes of Gupte, Bedi, Prasanna. From England: Trueman, Statham, Lock, Laker, Snow, Underwood etc. That is some serious bowling.

 

[shortpitched713]

Yes I get it, cowardly England were cool with just drawing matches. But that doesn't change the fact that Sobers was making a bigger impact by taking the bull by the horns in more 50/50 circumstances. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an SR supremacist, but I think it's wrong not to acknowledge this correlation between willingness among the very top batsmen to go aggro, and match-winning.

 

[The Sean]

I voted for Sobers here but I think the gap between them is pretty wafer thin, and I really don't think that comparing the strike rate of a Yorkshireman opening for England with a Barbadian playing in the middle order for the West Indies the better part of a generation later is a meaningful differentiator.

 

[Johan]

Yes I get it, cowardly England were cool with just drawing matches. But that doesn't change the fact that Sobers was making a bigger impact by taking the bull by the horns in more 50/50 circumstances. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an SR supremacist, but I think it's wrong not to acknowledge this correlation between willingness among the very top batsmen to go aggro, and match-winning.

This is a fantastical retelling of the story, West Indies fundamentally had batting paradises until a certain Michael Holding and therefore Styling and dashing play was more possible, England and South Africa are the two toughest places to bat in and thus naturally produce the most rigid players, you cannot equalise the skillset needeed to succeed in England to the skillset needed for West Indies. Saying Sobers won more games without being able to cite a larger number of wins is also sensationalism.

Put Sobers in Hutton's place and he either reworks his style or he won't have a great career, same thing the other way around

 

[Bolo.]

On a whole in terms of bowlers they faced there is no comparison. Sobers faced better. From Australia in his first series: Lindwall, Miller, Johnston, Johnson and Benaud at 19 years old. We are not even including the world tests vs young tearaway Lillee. He would've faced Alan Davidson later as well. Vs Pakistan Fazal. Vs India the likes of Gupte, Bedi, Prasanna. From England: Trueman, Statham, Lock, Laker, Snow, Underwood etc. That is some serious bowling.

You could make a way more impressive list of bowlers faced by the mid 90s to 2000s crew, like Jayawardene. But the average attack Jayawadene faced was very weak. Play across multiple eras, and you will run into a bunch of quality bowlers.

 

[Coronis]

On a whole in terms of bowlers they faced there is no comparison. Sobers faced better. From Australia in his first series: Lindwall, Miller, Johnston, Johnson and Benaud at 19 years old. We are not even including the world tests vs young tearaway Lillee. He would've faced Alan Davidson later as well. Vs Pakistan Fazal. Vs India the likes of Gupte, Bedi, Prasanna. From England: Trueman, Statham, Lock, Laker, Snow, Underwood etc. That is some serious bowling.

Interesting you’d mention Gupte, Bedi and Prasanna and not Chandra.

Some of the deadlier bowlers in matches involving Sobers

Trueman 16 matches 82 @ 21.03 6 5’fers 2 10’fers
Snow 11 matches 57 @ 26.21 4 5’fers 1 10’fer
Fazal 8 matches 41 @ 26.75 3 5’fers 1 10’fer
Davidson 4 matches 33 @ 18.54 5 5’fers 1 10’fer
Taylor 7 matches 32 @ 23.31 2 5’fers

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Interesting you’d mention Gupte, Bedi and Prasanna and not Chandra.

Some of the deadlier bowlers in matches involving Sobers

Trueman 16 matches 82 @ 21.03 6 5’fers 2 10’fers
Snow 11 matches 57 @ 26.21 4 5’fers 1 10’fer
Fazal 8 matches 41 @ 26.75 3 5’fers 1 10’fer
Davidson 4 matches 33 @ 18.54 5 5’fers 1 10’fer
Taylor 7 matches 32 @ 23.31 2 5’fers

Did he face Chandra? I honestly wasn't sure.

 

[Coronis]

Did he face Chandra? I honestly wasn't sure.

Yeah. In matches involving Sobers Chandra was by far the most successful, though he also played the fewest.

 

[Johan]

Interesting you’d mention Gupte, Bedi and Prasanna and not Chandra.

Some of the deadlier bowlers in matches involving Sobers

Trueman 16 matches 82 @ 21.03 6 5’fers 2 10’fers
Snow 11 matches 57 @ 26.21 4 5’fers 1 10’fer
Fazal 8 matches 41 @ 26.75 3 5’fers 1 10’fer
Davidson 4 matches 33 @ 18.54 5 5’fers 1 10’fer
Taylor 7 matches 32 @ 23.31 2 5’fers

do this for Hutton pls

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Yeah. In matches involving Sobers Chandra was by far the most successful, though he also played the fewest.

For some stupid reason, I thought Chandra debuted later.