Garry Sobers vs Imran Khan

[ankitj]

It's approximately 2/3rds for imran too. He averaged less than 30 for around 60 tests , then in his final 25-30 he became a 50+ average bat.

He averaged 50+ in his last 50+ tests.

 

[Coronis]

He averaged 50+ in his last 50+ tests.

Yeah but he averaged 30 in his first 60

 

[sayon basak]

I did 10 years (because it suits me)

View attachment 42369

Bowling in the same period:

View attachment 42370

How can anyone say Imran is not close to Sobers? SMH.

Now seeing these numbers, I feel like he is somewhat underrated.

 

[sayon basak]

Yeah but he averaged 30 in his first 60

50+60=110
Didn't even play that many tests.

 

[capt_Luffy]

50+60=110
Didn't even play that many tests.

A joke right??

 

[sayon basak]

Imran SR of 48. That’s barely above Kallis. Complete hack. Costing his team wins.

Unlike Kallis batting wasn't Imran's primary discipline.

BTW where did you get that number? It shows nothing in ESPNcricinfo and 57 in Cricbuzz.

 

[sayon basak]

A joke right??

No. I just didn't realize that the 24 tests in the middle were included twice in both accounts.
First 60 tests-

Last 52 tests-

 

[ankitj]

He averaged 50+ in his last 50+ tests.

Yeah but he averaged 30 in his first 60

You pulled my own trick on me.

 

[Coronis]

Unlike Kallis batting wasn't Imran's primary discipline.

BTW where did you get that number? It shows nothing in ESPNcricinfo and 57 in Cricbuzz.
View attachment 42377

Charles Davis has done excellent work.

http://www.sportstats.com.au/bloghome.html

Specifically try this page http://www.sportstats.com.au/hotscore2024.html

For other players you’ll have to find them in the database here http://www.sportstats.com.au/zArchive/contents.pdf

Click the era, then click the series, and then click player careers to see a specific players SR from all the ball by ball data he gathered.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sobers Batting > Imran Bowling
Sobers Bowling > Imran Batting
Sobers Fielding >>>>......>>> Imran Fielding

 

[smash84]

This period has two excellent series in England where he picked up 20 wickets and a series in Australia where he averaged 24, so it wasn't just India bashing like people are saying. Sobers' bowling peak had him putting up similar numbers to a good frontline pacer (in terms of actual number of wickets because he was around 4 wickets per match). Imran in his batting peak had great batting averages but only around 40 runs per game (because he had lots of not ours etc).

Definitely find Sobers' bowling peak more impressive than Imran's batting tbh. He combined good average + actual workload and wickets production more than Imran did.

Imran had a couple of great series with both bat and ball in his peak, too, though, and without India bashing Sobers' bowling peak looks unimpressive on the whole.

 

[kyear2]

I said in the beginning, but most will still disagree, the better comp to Sobers in my mind is Hadlee. He matches him on primary, that's the hardest part.

 

[subshakerz]

It's approximately 2/3rds for imran too. He averaged less than 30 for around 60 tests , then in his final 25-30 he became a 50+ average bat.

Saying he averaged close to 50 in the final decade of his career is technically true but slightly misleading because it's very skewed towards the back half of the decade. He averaged ~60 from 1987 onwards when his bowling declined. And even in this period even though he was an excellent batsman, he only had 50 or so runs per game which is much lower production than a proper 50 avg batsman. Sobers put together his batting and bowling peak simultaneously in a marginally more impressive way imo with comparable average + WPM of a frontline bowler.

This is wrong.

There are three phases of Imran's batting career.

His initial phase from 71 to 80 when he averaged 25 and was hardly much of a bat.

Imran's batting maturity came with his first test ton in 1980. From 1980 to 1988 when he was still in his bowling prime, he averaged 40.

Then over 70 his last few years.

So it is much more correct to look at the period from 80 onwards as his batting prime.

 

[subshakerz]

I said in the beginning, but most will still disagree, the better comp to Sobers in my mind is Hadlee. He matches him on primary, that's the hardest part.

Hadlee is much worse in secondary.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah but he averaged 30 in his first 60

Averaging 30 as an outside peak period for the 1980s is pretty good for a secondary discipline. But that slicing of his career is wrong.

Sobers took 110 wickets in 60 games @42 outside of his peak.

 

[smash84]

110 wickets at 42 is definitely worse than averaging 30 with the bat.

 

[subshakerz]

Fair point. Sobers had more specialist equivalent workload than Imran in their respective secondary discipline. But Imran had a superior average (not outs don't increase your average). I can call it dead heat in their secondary disciplines during their peaks but over entire careers I think Imran wins out marginally.

It's in their primary disciplines where Sobers had a clear edge so in sum I rate Sobers marginally higher. Things like slip catching gets at least evenly matched by Imran's captaincy and legacy he left behind.

Agree on this completely.

 

[kyear2]

This is wrong.

There are three phases of Imran's batting career.

His initial phase from 71 to 80 when he averaged 25 and was hardly much of a bat.

Imran's batting maturity came with his first test ton in 1980. From 1980 to 1988 when he was still in his bowling prime, he averaged 40.

Then over 70 his last few years.

So it is much more correct to look at the period from 80 onwards as his batting prime.

So not wrong so much as not convenient for your narrative?

Both are just as accurate.

 

[kyear2]

Hadlee is much worse in secondary.

But as you argued in the Steyn v Kallis comparison and the Wasim vs Kallis comparison, it's the primary that's weighted much more heavily.

And you went with both Steyn and Wasim in those comps.

 

[kyear2]

Averaging 30 as an outside peak period for the 1980s is pretty good for a secondary discipline. But that slicing of his career is wrong.

Sobers took 110 wickets in 60 games @42 outside of his peak.

So you took the beginning and ending of Sobers's career to come up with that number, but took Imran first 60, which included his "first peak" to use as a comparison.

You do see how that's disingenuous right?

And re the bolded bit. How can you say that taking an average after 60 games of a career is wrong?

You might say it's not representative, which it kinda was, but you can't say it's wrong, lol.