Future ****Stars**** of Australian Cricket

[Richard]

You regularly quote from someone then post as if replying to someone else.
Or possibly the other way around.

 

[Top_Cat]

As for picking someone on a single season, well - how often has a player been an international success because of 1 good season?

Glenn McGrath played 8 FC games before being picked for the Test side and Warnie's FC average was above 35 when he played his first Test.

Given it happens seldom but sometimes, just sometimes, one has to look past the numbers to see the potential great within.

 

[aussie]

aussie

You regularly quote from someone then post as if replying to someone else.
Or possibly the other way around.

well is that wrong, well if it is what can i do, but i am new to all of this so my bad

 

[aussie]

aussie

good post top cat, very interesting facts that shockingly i didn't know

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

James Hopes' selection is a bad joke.
I mean, before this season has he ever done anything of note?

It was quite a good move actually. Who else should they pick as a bowling all-rounder in the number seven position? As much as I like Watson, I actually think Hopes and Harvey are better suited to that role, Watson's future in the ODI side would be as a top order batsman who bowls as one of the main five - like Kallis early in his ODI career.

Out of the two serious options aside from Watson in that role, Harvey has done reasonably well from time to time in ODIs with the ball but has consistently failed with the bat, and someone else deserved a shot. Hopes had a good season and deserved his call-up, and in the one game where he played he was arguably the best player on the day from either side. I assume you didn't see him, but he did a great job. Very economical and little interest in taking wickets - you'd love him.

 

[Mister Wright]

James Hopes' selection is a bad joke.
I mean, before this season has he ever done anything of note?

It was not a joke. In previous seasons he has been superb with the ball, especially in domestic one day games, he got his maiden first class hundred last year and since then his batting has improved enormously. He was a justified selection.

 

[age_master]

It was not a joke. In previous seasons he has been superb with the ball, especially in domestic one day games, he got his maiden first class hundred last year and since then his batting has improved enormously. He was a justified selection.

definatley a justifyable pick as an all rounder

 

[Mr Casson]

Hey, he's winning me over, and I have an unfounded hatred of Queensland!

Kasper's done the same thing. Can't help but love the guy.

 

[age_master]

kaspa seems a good bloke, pretty popular in sydney too - when i was at the test (kaspa being 12th man) he got a massive cheer everytime he touched the ball

 

[Top_Cat]

Hopes is gradually winning me over too. I certainly didn't rate him as a bowler for a lot of years but then I saw him bat in a one-dayer early this past season and I thought he looked fantastic. Then I saw his bowling had improved a fair bit and I honestly thought he would be in the Aussie team mix soon but not as soon as he did. More power to the guy; a perfect example of someone who took hiw chances when they came.

 

[Swervy]

James Hopes' selection is a bad joke.
I mean, before this season has he ever done anything of note?

is this another case of you making judgments on players that you just have never seen play before (ie basing all of your opinion on past figures)
Selectors tend to look beyond averages,with some players you can see that they have something about them,something that will suit international cricket,something that doesnt always show up in domestic averages.(by the way..I havent seen the guy play, so I wouldnt really want to make a judgement on whether his selection is a joke or not..however the Aussies are pretty committed to success and I doubt they would play a fella who is really crap))

Four players spring to mind (only 2 of which I saw in their early careers)...

Ian Botham...73 or 74....didnt do too much averages wise,but almost from day one apparently had international cricket written all over him (helped possibly by that one day game for Somerset when he was about 17, when he came in at number 9ish,got smashed in the face by Andy Roberts,lost about 3 teeth,went on to win the game with a quick 40)

david Gower..did very little at domestic level..the selectors obviously saw the talent and went with it..first ball in tests goes for 4, scores a 50..never looks back...and he never did do really well in county cricket.

Neil fairbrother...in about 83,he hadnt done that much,but watching him, you knew he would eventually become a great ODI player...which in fact he did, despite the relatively few games he played for England, he was one of the best ODIers England have ever produced.

Robin Smith..from day one(1983 ish) it was obvious he was a supreme talent, and thats without even needing big scores to back him up. He played vs WI in 88. His first innings was about 35 ish..that innings cemented his place in the team, despite the fact he struggled to average 30 for the first 10 tests or so.

Just 4 players I have come up with with out any research into the matter..I am sure there are plenty of others.Sure some players end up as duds, but so do some players who have great domestic records

 

[Richard]

Neil fairbrother...in about 83,he hadnt done that much,but watching him, you knew he would eventually become a great ODI player...which in fact he did, despite the relatively few games he played for England, he was one of the best ODIers England have ever produced.

Robin Smith..from day one(1983 ish) it was obvious he was a supreme talent, and thats without even needing big scores to back him up. He played vs WI in 88. His first innings was about 35 ish..that innings cemented his place in the team, despite the fact he struggled to average 30 for the first 10 tests or so.

And not surprisingly both ended-up with fantastic averages (Fairbrother's List-A-OD average 41.69, Smith's over 41 in both forms [and they went down as he played on about 4 seasons too long]).
Funny, that, eh?

 

[Richard]

Just 4 players I have come up with with out any research into the matter..I am sure there are plenty of others.Sure some players end up as duds, but so do some players who have great domestic records

The basic crux of the matter is this:
Whatever the situation with domestic successes who fail at international level (there are a few of them), the fact is a player who is a success at the international level will almost certainly have been a success at the domestic, too
Of course there are a few anomalies in that trend (Gower, whose domestic-First-Class average of 36 said a lot about his can't-be-bothered attitude to the domestic game; Richards, who had a similar attitude - as a couple of for-instances), there are anomalies in every trend.
But it exists

 

[Richard]

It was quite a good move actually. Who else should they pick as a bowling all-rounder in the number seven position? As much as I like Watson, I actually think Hopes and Harvey are better suited to that role, Watson's future in the ODI side would be as a top order batsman who bowls as one of the main five - like Kallis early in his ODI career.

Out of the two serious options aside from Watson in that role, Harvey has done reasonably well from time to time in ODIs with the ball but has consistently failed with the bat, and someone else deserved a shot. Hopes had a good season and deserved his call-up, and in the one game where he played he was arguably the best player on the day from either side. I assume you didn't see him, but he did a great job. Very economical and little interest in taking wickets - you'd love him.

Shame about his List-A-OD economy-rate of 4.38-an-over, then, eh? (And I do find his average of under 27 a little odd for someone who has little interest in wicket-taking)
As for Harvey - come on! Has there ever been a more overrated player? ER over 4.7 and average over 30. And people talk as if he's a ODI great, especially over here.

 

[Richard]

Glenn McGrath played 8 FC games before being picked for the Test side

No wonder it took him so long to settle into Test-cricket!
Finally I find a plausible explanation for that...

 

[Neil Pickup]

The basic crux of the matter is this:
Whatever the situation with domestic successes who fail at international level (there are a few of them), the fact is a player who is a success at the international level will almost certainly have been a success at the domestic, too
Of course there are a few anomalies in that trend (Gower, whose domestic-First-Class average of 36 said a lot about his can't-be-bothered attitude to the domestic game; Richards, who had a similar attitude - as a couple of for-instances), there are anomalies in every trend.
But it exists

Then why is the correlation between Test and FC averages for England in the last decade non-existent?

 

[Richard]

No, that's because of the number of people who've played 1 or 2 Tests.
All the successes bar Trescothick who could quite fairly be called the luckiest player alive have had success at the domestic level.
I wonder if you could reproduce this graph with data-labels (ie player names). Or better still, remove the 1 and 2 Test wonders.

 

[Swervy]

And not surprisingly both ended-up with fantastic averages (Fairbrother's List-A-OD average 41.69, Smith's over 41 in both forms [and they went down as he played on about 4 seasons too long]).
Funny, that, eh?

but the point is even before they had accumulated great stats, or for that matter,half decent ones, they were being touted as international players. If a player like Fairbrother cropped up now and was an Aussie, I reckon he may well have played ODIs by the time he was 21 or 22, despite what his stats may have suggested..England were very slow on the uptake with fairbrother (ok he debuted at the age of 23 or so, but even by 1991 he had only played a handful of games for England)

I guess is a different thing I think he was delayed in test selection because of qualification (maybe??)...

someone has mentioned McGrath only playing 8 fc games before he was selected...he might have had a slowish start to his career...but well done selectors for spotting the talent early and getting him in the set up (actually McGrath had a few good performances in tests even before he broke big)(but also consider how well he played at the start of his ODI career..again after only a half a dozen games for state)

I also doubt Warne played too much for Victoria before he played for Australia

 

[Richard]

Fairbrother playing so few ODIs by 1991 had far more to do with England playing so few in those days.
3 at home... ridiculous.

 

[Swervy]

Fairbrother playing so few ODIs by 1991 had far more to do with England playing so few in those days.
3 at home... ridiculous.

I dont think England had really worked out that good test players arent always great ODI players...when they sussed it they got good (for a bit anyway)

True, one of the great mysteries(and tragedies for England) that F'bro didnt play more then he did