Fringe Aussie fringe Players who would excel in other teams..

[chaminda_00]

It clear Dasa u haven't watched Brett Lee play in test recently, cus if u have u would see that his a wicket taking option. Who cares how many runs u go for if take more wickets then most bowlers. In test cricket it doesn't matter if u can stop people scoring runs it all about wickets, u have to take 20 wickets to win test not stop team from scoring 4 an over. If this was the case then Adam Dale would have played more Test for Australia.

 

[Mr Casson]

It clear Dasa u haven't watched Brett Lee play in test recently

And you have? What an odd little man you are.

 

[Dasa]

It clear Dasa u haven't watched Brett Lee play in test recently, cus if u have u would see that his a wicket taking option.

Ok.. I think I've seen almost every Test Lee has played in since the start of the Ashes. Since then, Lee has taken 50 wickets in 13 Tests at 38.30.
Looking closer, his E/R through these 13 matches has been 3.73. He also played 4 Tests vs Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in this period, taking 12 wickets at 34.33. The only team agains whom Lee has had any success in the last 2 to 3 years has been the West Indies, taking 17 wickets at 28.82.

And you have? What an odd little man you are.

 

[chaminda_00]

Ok.. I think I've seen almost every Test Lee has played in since the start of the Ashes. Since then, Lee has taken 50 wickets in 13 Tests at 38.30.
Looking closer, his E/R through these 13 matches has been 3.73. He also played 4 Tests vs Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in this period, taking 12 wickets at 34.33. The only team agains whom Lee has had any success in the last 2 to 3 years has been the West Indies, taking 17 wickets at 28.82.

As i will say again average is everything it is the amount of wickets that u take that matters in Test Cricket. in 9 Test (excluding the matches aganist ZIM and BAN) Lee's taken 38 wickets, this is 4.2 wickets per Test. Compare this to the three best bowlers in the world IMO:
Murali (5.9)
Warne (4.7)
Mcgarth (4.5)

Apart from Murali he is pretty close to the rest, i'm sure if u look at the other top bowlers currently and in the past u will see the same thing.

U don't pick Test sides on E/R u pick them on ability to take wickets and even when Brett not bowling at his best he still can take more wickets per test then most bowlers.

 

[marc71178]

It clear Dasa u haven't watched Brett Lee play in test recently

Nobody has, because he's not been deemed good enough.

 

[Scallywag]

Nobody has, because he's not been deemed good enough.

Thats where your wrong marc, John Buchanan has stated that Australia has 14 players and selecting any 11 from that 14 would produce the same results but you can only select 11 to play at one time. You may think you know more than the coach but he has no doubt that Lee is more than good enough to play test cricket but will have to bide his time until the door opens and he will be one of Australias main bowlers.

My prediction is Australia will continue to keep the ashes for at least the next eight years mainly due to Lee's bowling.

 

[tooextracool]

Wopes i was looking at his overall World Cup record not the 2003, sorry me bad. But anyway Brett Lee was still one of the leading wicket taker with 22 wickets. Only Chaminda Vaas beat him with 23 wickets. If Brett can repeat that from who is to say he can't end up as the one of the all time great quick bowlers.

yes and he went at 4.74, so its nowhere near as good as you are making him out to be. id much rather have an average of 20 @ 2.88 over an average of 18 @ 4.74 any day of the week. and it doesnt change the fact that he is a very poor test bowler.

 

[tooextracool]

Both are excellent oneday players - I'd say both would make any Oneday side in the world. And please no one suggest Lee wouldn't make the English One day side at the moment.

lee wouldnt, or rather shouldnt be making the australian side ATM. bowlers like mcgrath, gillespie and kaspa are far better than him.

Both are good test players but not greats. Neither have consistently performed against the best opposition at test level.

Flintoff's test form has obviously been better Lee's of late, but Lee's has limited opportunity to play test cricket because the Aussie pace attack is just too good at the moment.

and when he played almost every test match for 3 years and was miserable for nearly all of it,averaging in the high 30s, he was still given limited opportunities wasnt he?

As i've stated many times b4, IMO Flintoff wouldn't make the current Aust test team either. .

because australia is simply filled with such fantastic all rounders like watson ATM.

Where could u fit Flintoff in their current TEST side??

take your pick from lehmann, clarke and hayden?

Top 6 batsmen (All better far better batsmen than Flintoff)

clarkes better than hayden? since when?
and flintoff makes it because hes a better all round player, and offers more than both hayden and lehmann do.

 

[Zinzan]

because australia is simply filled with such fantastic all rounders like watson ATM.

This current Australian test team doesn't need an allrounder , its that simple. Shane Watson is a poor example for you to bring up because I'm sure you know he wouldn't make their fully fit side.

Rather than just replying sarcastically as in your above comment. Why don't you be constructive and explain who you would drop from the current (FULLY FIT) Aust test side to acommodate Flintoff if you really believe he would make it.

IMO He not good enough at either individual discipline(batting or bowling) to make to top aussie test side.

 

[tooextracool]

This current Australian test team doesn't need an allrounder , its that simple. Shane Watson is a poor example for you to bring up because I'm sure you know he wouldn't make their fully fit side.

Rather than just replying sarcastically as in your above comment. Why don't you be constructive and explain who you would drop from the current (FULLY FIT) Aust test side to acommodate Flintoff if you really believe he would make it.

if you take the attempt of reading my post, instead of filtering out whatevers convenient, you might actually realise that ive stated quite clearly who could be dropped to accomodate flintoff.

IMO He not good enough at either individual discipline(batting or bowling) to make to top aussie test side.

maybe not, but as ive said one million times, he would make it into the side on the basis of BOTH his disciplines.

 

[Zinzan]

if you take the attempt of reading my post, instead of filtering out whatevers convenient, you might actually realise that ive stated quite clearly who could be dropped to accomodate flintoff.
.

Apologies...your right I missed those.

I agree that Flint offers more allround skills than any of the top 6 of
Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn
Leymann
and Clarke

....but these are all Worldclass batsmen (far better than Freddy) and they simply don't need the extra bowler. They hardly struggle to bowl sides out with Mcgrath, Gillispie, Kaspa and Warne (all of these are far better bowlers than Flintoff). I also agree Flintoff is better than Watson...but you no as well as me that Watson was playing only for experience and covering injury.
Given a fully fit side Flintoff or Lee would fight it out for 12th man IMO.

IMO Flintoff would however make any other test side in the world at the moment as well as the Aussie oneday team. Just not a starter in the Aussie test side.

 

[tooextracool]

clarke has still not proven to be world class, in fact most people have doubts after that last series as to whether he was good enough against quality pace bowling. hayden as ive said one million times is overrated, and lehmann well he just hasnt been performing, and as much as i like him as a player, the fact that the selectors have already dropped him show that he is nowhere near a certainity in the test side.

 

[chaminda_00]

yes and he went at 4.74, so its nowhere near as good as you are making him out to be. id much rather have an average of 20 @ 2.88 over an average of 18 @ 4.74 any day of the week. and it doesnt change the fact that he is a very poor test bowler.

How many wickets did Flintoff take 7, wasn't it in 5 games. Pretty poor if u ask me. When u have McGarth and Gillespie in ur side why do u need anouther bowler to keep the runs down. U need someone who going to take wickets, Lee. That what u call a balance attack.

How many very poor test bowlers take over 4 wickets per match, when their not at their best. At his best he takes 5 per match, ganted that was four years back, but that is what his capable of. Still think he is a very poor test bowler.

 

[tooextracool]

How many wickets did Flintoff take 7, wasn't it in 5 games. Pretty poor if u ask me. When u have McGarth and Gillespie in ur side why do u need anouther bowler to keep the runs down. U need someone who going to take wickets, Lee. That what u call a balance attack.

err he averaged 20, which is more than good enough. and ,mcgrath and gillespie are more than just bowlers who keep it down, they can also take wickets.

How many very poor test bowlers take over 4 wickets per match, when their not at their best. At his best he takes 5 per match, ganted that was four years back, but that is what his capable of. Still think he is a very poor test bowler.

you cannot be capable of doing something if you havent done it for 5 years, the fact that it happened 5 years ago shows that it was more likely to be more due to luck, or the fact that no one had seen him bowl yet. since then of course most test sides have exposed him to be the mediocre bowler that he is.

 

[chaminda_00]

clarke has still not proven to be world class, in fact most people have doubts after that last series as to whether he was good enough against quality pace bowling. hayden as ive said one million times is overrated, and lehmann well he just hasnt been performing, and as much as i like him as a player, the fact that the selectors have already dropped him show that he is nowhere near a certainity in the test side.

Last time i checked Flintoff's form with that bat wasn't anything special in South Africa:
35,0,60,12,20,2,7,77,14*

Two scores of any note, i can't see the Aussie selectors picking him over the Australian Batsmen, even with Hayden and Lehmann out of form.

Their also most be doubts over his ability to play good spin bowling. Just over 12 mounts ago he got completely out played by Murali, he got him 5 times. What about his ability to play good pace bowler Pollock got him out 7 times and Ntini 5.

Flintoff is also a great wicket taking bowler in Test Cricket, one 5wh aganist an average Windies team

I can see the case for his selection getting bigger by the moment.

 

[chaminda_00]

you cannot be capable of doing something if you havent done it for 5 years, the fact that it happened 5 years ago shows that it was more likely to be more due to luck, or the fact that no one had seen him bowl yet. since then of course most test sides have exposed him to be the mediocre bowler that he is.

So ur saying Flintoff last season was down to good luck, considering he had done nothing in the previous 5 seasons.

Fair enough u have to be consistent for long period to be classified as a good bowler, but i still think he is far more then a medicore bowler. You don't take 4 wickets per test over a 3 to 4 period and still be classified as a mediocre bowler. His average might be high but so are allot of bowlers of his generation, as pitiches are batter freindly.

 

[marc71178]

At his best he takes 5 per match, ganted that was four years back, but that is what his capable of.

That is what he was capable of yes, but then he got injured...

 

[Zinzan]

That is what he was capable of yes, but then he got injured...

You don't believe your slightly one-eyed with regards Flintoff Marc??

 

[Zinzan]

That is what he was capable of yes, but then he got injured...

Thats is considering the most disagree with you

 

[tooextracool]

Last time i checked Flintoff's form with that bat wasn't anything special in South Africa:
35,0,60,12,20,2,7,77,14*

yes well done, now go ahead and show me how well the threesome of clarke, hayden and lehmann did in their last series?
and can any of them bowl? hell no.

Two scores of any note, i can't see the Aussie selectors picking him over the Australian Batsmen, even with Hayden and Lehmann out of form.

how long will it take you to realise, that flintoff is not just a batsman but also a bowler?

Their also most be doubts over his ability to play good spin bowling. Just over 12 mounts ago he got completely out played by Murali, he got him 5 times. What about his ability to play good pace bowler Pollock got him out 7 times and Ntini 5.

yes and miraculously he hammered the both of them when they toured england in the summer of 2003.

Flintoff is also a great wicket taking bowler in Test Cricket, one 5wh aganist an average Windies team

point being? i certainly wouldnt mind my 4th bowler taking 3/60 off 25 overs when ive got kaspa, gillespie and mcgrath also in the side. id much rather have flintoff averaging 24 with the ball and 35 with the bat, than have hayden scoring on flat wickets and failing on non flat ones, and not getting any wickets at all.

I can see the case for his selection getting bigger by the moment.

yes if you would put on your glasses you would