Freddie claims he was shot at in Delhi....

[C_C]

I guess basically what we've got in this thread now is an awful lot of irate people who just don't want it to have happened.

Quoting from the article concerned, it reads

"Nasser Hussain got very heated about it in the middle and Phil Neale, the tour manager, came on to find out what was going on. We carried on, but the whole thing seemed to get swept under the carpet.. Andrew Walpole, the ECB's media relations manager, told me to play the incident down..."

It's a very small part of the book, but of course it does make a sensational news headline. Incidentally, it was not a headline in The Times - just a very minor section indeed. The rest of the media (and Sanz) have just blown it out of all proportion (as usual).

I think who are guilty of blowing it outta proportion is Scaly Piscine

 

[C_C]

No it's not surprising at all that we didn't hear of it, a certain country picking at the seam when they were playing England was equally well swept under the carpet.

Just like a european nation playing in the caribbean were accused of matchfixing and it was swept under the carpet without a peep.

 

[Slow Love™]

I can't name another character in sport I think would be less interested in how many copies of his life story he sold.

Well, apart from those who haven't written their life story at 27, you mean...

This saintifying of Freddie is getting to be too much. I heard that the only thing that passes out of his buttocks is sweet chocolate butter, which is spread on sandwiches and fed to poor children in the stands on match days.

But the deal with this is most likely that the media grabbed the incident and ran with it upon publication (or just before - I dunno if his book has hit the stands yet or not). It probably is a small part of the book, and it's an incredibly rare (and serious) kind of incident. The English management deserves far more criticism than Indian crowds in general as a result - instead in this thread, we are seeing conspiracy theories about secret deals with the Asia-loving ICC, and comments like "what would have happened if he were a Pakistani?" - well, Pakistan just toured there, and by all accounts, the crowd behaviour was extremely good.

 

[Jono]

Thank you SL, for bringing a sensible and unbiased view to the table, considering the garbage I've read in this thread from both sides its quite refreshing.

LOL @ Freddy having a life story @ 27 too

 

[C_C]

Trust you to bring some sanity in the discussion here, SL.

PS: how come you are never online in msn ?

 

[greg]

Flintoff put a small piece in his book about it, probably as an "interesting story" from touring the subcontinent, with a small line about how "looking back the England management should have done more about it". One doesn't get the impression he thought his life was in danger. Just as today's extract is heavily criticising the England management for the way in which they (mis)handled his injuries in the early part of his career with god knows what consequences for the success of England in the future. One doesn't get the impression he thought much of the ECB and England management back then.

It was not even given a headline in the Times, just a small page filler. It has consequently been picked up by the news wires, but no news organisation have made a particularly big deal of it. It has subsequently made it onto a cricket discussion forum, where unsurprisingly some people are in agreement with Flintoff's opinion that "more should have been done about it" (although nobody really knows what). It has only really become sensationalised at all when a few Indian supporters have jumped in and effectively treated it as if Flintoff has made an enormous slur on the Indian people, and anyone who defends him likewise. (oh and some person jumping in and accusing the ICC of a massive pro-Asian coverup, admittedly )

To be honest it is pretty obvious why the ECB's first instinct was to cover the whole thing up. The whole lead up to the tour had been surrounded by massively overexaggerated claims about the safety of touring India at the time of the Afghanistan war, with several players being given the option of pulling out and taking it (completely ignoring the fact that India is a) a largely Hindu country and b) rather a long way away from Afghanistan - just as when discussing "the difficulty of playing cricket in the subcontinent", India and Pakistan are always treated by the media as one and the same.) Ian Botham went on all the media outlets citing foreign office advice that "you should not draw attention to yourself in public" (ignoring the fact that this is the foreign office advice for virtually EVERY country in the world, other than those which have higher states of alert) as a reason enough for the high profile england cricket team not to go. In such circumstances making any sort of fuss could probably have ended the tour and poisoned Anglo-Indian relationships for years to come.

 

[C_C]

It has only really become sensationalised at all when a few Indian supporters have jumped in and effectively treated it as if Flintoff has made an enormous slur on the Indian people, and anyone who defends him likewise.

You would find that the sensationalists here are the Flintoff gang with total tools like Scaly Piscine, who alleges it to be a coverup and pro-india bias when factually, it is much easier to make a case otherwise.
I see no reason to believe Flintoff blindly and such a serious allegation needs proof to be backed up. Not to mention, as i said, i find it incredulous that Freddie didnt freak out after he realised he has been fired upon and take cover/go off the field ( i have been close to a gunfight before and everyone- including the SWAT team guy dives for cover, not stand around and go 'oh its an airgun.wont hurt me unless he can hit me in like 2 spots coz i am well protected') and that Hussain practically risked imprisonment by asking him to go back to his spot and pretend nothing happened.( if Flintoff had chosen to pursue this and if his versions are accurate, Hussain and a few others in the English management could've gone to jail for criminal negligence). Not to mention, smuggling in a gun inside an Indian stadium is much harder than smuggling a gun inside an english stadium - they do body searches and open all yer containers ( yes, they even open bottles and sniff it) in India - that is more than what goes on in England.

I see no reason to beleive Flintoff without any evidence, apart from the obvious Anglo bias. My view is that what he said is possible but i find it much less likely than this being a lil publicity gamble - atmost he will get fined for such an irresponsible statement but if it boosts the sale of his book, he is still very much in the green.
Some people might be swayed by the messenger and not the message but i would like to see SOME corroborrating evidence before i give Flintoff the credibility here - remember the onus is on the one making the allegation.
But either which way, it leads to one of two conclusions for me - 1. Flintoff is dumb as a doorknob for further risking his life/serious injury/mishap by staying on field after he's been shot at or 2. He is a liar.

 

[Slow Love™]

It has subsequently made it onto a cricket discussion forum, where unsurprisingly some people are in agreement with Flintoff's opinion that "more should have been done about it" (although nobody really knows what). It has only really become sensationalised at all when a few Indian supporters have jumped in and effectively treated it as if Flintoff has made an enormous slur on the Indian people, and anyone who defends him likewise. (oh and some person jumping in and accusing the ICC of a massive pro-Asian coverup, admittedly ) Oh, and I almost forgot, there was also the issue of Englishmen insinuating that the ICC would impose sanctions if it happened in England (and the claim that "India" got away with it), as well as the usual predictions that it wouldn't be safe to tour there now because of this one incident that happened four years ago - all of this (including the ICC bias slurs) before a single Indian posted...

There, I fixed this part of your post so it more accurately describes what happened.

 

[Blaze]

PS: how come you are never online in msn ?

Blocked perhaps?

 

[Slow Love™]

Some people might be swayed by the messenger and not the message but i would like to see SOME corroborrating evidence before i give Flintoff the credibility here - remember the onus is on the one making the allegation.
But either which way, it leads to one of two conclusions for me - 1. Flintoff is dumb as a doorknob for further risking his life/serious injury/mishap by staying on field after he's been shot at or 2. He is a liar.

The fact is though, that it might have happened exactly as Flintoff said it did. I don't really know why he'd have a reason to conjure it all up out of mid-air.

The issue for me is more about what has been done with Flintoff's comments than Flintoff's comments themselves, if that makes sense.

BTW, sorry mate, I'm almost never on MSN - it's just too time-consuming, and given how little control I have over my own time these days, it works well for me to post if I've got the time, and not post if I don't.

 

[greg]

You would find that the sensationalists here are the Flintoff gang with total tools like Scaly Piscine, who alleges it to be a coverup and pro-india bias when factually, it is much easier to make a case otherwise.
I see no reason to believe Flintoff blindly and such a serious allegation needs proof to be backed up. Not to mention, as i said, i find it incredulous that Freddie didnt freak out after he realised he has been fired upon and take cover/go off the field ( i have been close to a gunfight before and everyone- including the SWAT team guy dives for cover, not stand around and go 'oh its an airgun.wont hurt me unless he can hit me in like 2 spots coz i am well protected') and that Hussain practically risked imprisonment by asking him to go back to his spot and pretend nothing happened.( if Flintoff had chosen to pursue this and if his versions are accurate, Hussain and a few others in the English management could've gone to jail for criminal negligence). Not to mention, smuggling in a gun inside an Indian stadium is much harder than smuggling a gun inside an english stadium - they do body searches and open all yer containers ( yes, they even open bottles and sniff it) in India - that is more than what goes on in England.

I see no reason to beleive Flintoff without any evidence, apart from the obvious Anglo bias. My view is that what he said is possible but i find it much less likely than this being a lil publicity gamble - atmost he will get fined for such an irresponsible statement but if it boosts the sale of his book, he is still very much in the green.
Some people might be swayed by the messenger and not the message but i would like to see SOME corroborrating evidence before i give Flintoff the credibility here - remember the onus is on the one making the allegation.
But either which way, it leads to one of two conclusions for me - 1. Flintoff is dumb as a doorknob for further risking his life/serious injury/mishap by staying on field after he's been shot at or 2. He is a liar.

For Christ's sake, did you read the cricinfo commentary? "Some of the crowd have got a bit excited, it appears Flintoff has been hit by something..." If you think the whole 'incident' has been made up then presumably someone has gone back into the cricinfo archives and doctored them! It is pretty obvious they did not think their "lives were in danger" or there in no way in a million years that they would have stayed on the field.

As for your statements about being in a gunfight, SWAT teams - well most people in England don't have much experience of that so perhaps they wouldn't know to be quite so scared. I guess that the SWAT teams wouldn't, however, have a policy of being quite so cautious if they knew the greatest threat they were up against was an air rifle.

As for "criminal negligence", this is a CRICKET team not the British Army!

 

[C_C]

The fact is though, that it might have happened exactly as Flintoff said it did. I don't really know why he'd have a reason to conjure it all up out of mid-air.

The issue for me is more about what has been done with Flintoff's comments than Flintoff's comments themselves, if that makes sense.

BTW, sorry mate, I'm almost never on MSN - it's just too time-consuming, and given how little control I have over my own time these days, it works well for me to post if I've got the time, and not post if I don't.

Well i think the responsible thing to do about his comments would be to investigate it - if his comments are accurate, it needs to be assessed how such a breach in security could occur and how can it be rectified ( for if it can happen in India, it can happen anywhere in the cricket world - india has one of the highest security standards in cricket, as much as the Anglo-corridor here would think otherwise due to tabloid journalism).
If his comments are shown to be a false publicity gimmick, he should be heavily sanctioned for such an irresponsible statement.

As per the 'other' side of the coin, i can see a motivation- the quintessential 'shock value uproar to raise the publicity and thus desirability of yer product'. Its been happening for ages in Hollywood and some american sportsmen are known to paint a picture of ' me vs the world, i had to fight every step of the way, right from my mommy's womb'.
Flintoff probably figures that at most this would lead to a few tests banned or a heavy fine. If his comments pick up steam, the gain in sales ( and thus royalty $$) could more than cover his fine and he's young- a few tests wouldnt mean anything to him at this stage.
Either way, its unlikely that it would be anything more than civil litigation instead of a criminal one ( even if Delhi Police chooses to persue it to the hilt) and if money is the motivation, it is a calculated gamble - not only is it likely that such a shocking story to give a significant boost to his book, it is likely that he would become an even bigger heart-throb of the English populace and thus spin even more money. ( given that the English culture loves 'me vs the world and i won'/' i was kicked, shot, bounced, knifed but i still got up and conquered the world' plot-lines)

 

[greg]

There, I fixed this part of your post so it more accurately describes what happened.

Thank-you, you're so kind. The general point stands that it didn't become "sensationalised" until it made it onto a cricket discussion forum though ;

 

[greg]

Well i think the responsible thing to do about his comments would be to investigate it - if his comments are accurate, it needs to be assessed how such a breach in security could occur and how can it be rectified ( for if it can happen in India, it can happen anywhere in the cricket world - india has one of the highest security standards in cricket, as much as the Anglo-corridor here would think otherwise due to tabloid journalism).
If his comments are shown to be a false publicity gimmick, he should be heavily sanctioned for such an irresponsible statement.

As per the 'other' side of the coin, i can see a motivation- the quintessential 'shock value uproar to raise the publicity and thus desirability of yer product'. Its been happening for ages in Hollywood and some american sportsmen are known to paint a picture of ' me vs the world, i had to fight every step of the way, right from my mommy's womb'.
Flintoff probably figures that at most this would lead to a few tests banned or a heavy fine. If his comments pick up steam, the gain in sales ( and thus royalty $$) could more than cover his fine and he's young- a few tests wouldnt mean anything to him at this stage. Either way, its unlikely that it would be anything more than civil litigation instead of a criminal one ( even if Delhi Police chooses to persue it to the hilt) and if money is the motivation, it is a calculated gamble - not only is it likely that such a shocking story to give a significant boost to his book, it is likely that he would become an even bigger heart-throb of the English populace and thus spin even more money. ( given that the English culture loves 'me vs the world and i won'/' i was kicked, shot, bounced, knifed but i still got up and conquered the world' plot-lines)

Lol - perhaps you should go to the Times and read today's extracts about how he's never certain that his injury problems won't occur at very short notice

Anyway, have you even read the article? I get the Times and I can tell you that the incident wasn't even given a headline. One would have thought if he had invented an incident to increase his book sales he would have taken the precaution of getting the Times to splash it all over the back page!

Here you are, here's a link

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3341-1790020,00.html

God I wouldn't want you to be on the ICC disciplinary committee with the power to ban people! We wouldn't have anyone to play international cricket left ;-)

 

[Slow Love™]

Thank-you, you're so kind. The general point stands that it didn't become "sensationalised" until it made it onto a cricket discussion forum though ;

I've got no disagreement with that.

 

[Craig]

yeah, sorry. But I am with Sanz here. They never allow us to carry even banners to the stadium here at Chennai. WE have to actually buy the charts and markers there and then write the slogans. We are not allowed to take lunch and this last test against Australia, they banned the carry of mobiles and cameras and plastic bottles. And I would presume the same would apply elsewhere as well, although it is known that Delhi is not the best place to play cricket in. The stadium itself is crappy and it is not the best administration in India.

I can understand plastic bottles, and possibly no lunch as they would you to buy it inside the ground, but the banning of cameras and mobiles is a case of paranoria.

 

[Jono]

There, I fixed this part of your post so it more accurately describes what happened.

LOL! Brilliant SL.

And CC I very much doubt Flintoff would make it up, and I don't think he exaggerated it. The real irritating thing was the conspiracy theories that were made on the board. Its quite ironic, since Indian fans who claim teh ICC is biased against India (which I totally disagree with mind you) are called idiots full of conspiracy theories, but its all fine and dandy when it goes the other way.

 

[Craig]

Well i think the responsible thing to do about his comments would be to investigate it - if his comments are accurate, it needs to be assessed how such a breach in security could occur and how can it be rectified ( for if it can happen in India, it can happen anywhere in the cricket world - india has one of the highest security standards in cricket, as much as the Anglo-corridor here would think otherwise due to tabloid journalism).
If his comments are shown to be a false publicity gimmick, he should be heavily sanctioned for such an irresponsible statement.

As per the 'other' side of the coin, i can see a motivation- the quintessential 'shock value uproar to raise the publicity and thus desirability of yer product'. Its been happening for ages in Hollywood and some american sportsmen are known to paint a picture of ' me vs the world, i had to fight every step of the way, right from my mommy's womb'.
Flintoff probably figures that at most this would lead to a few tests banned or a heavy fine. If his comments pick up steam, the gain in sales ( and thus royalty $$) could more than cover his fine and he's young- a few tests wouldnt mean anything to him at this stage.
Either way, its unlikely that it would be anything more than civil litigation instead of a criminal one ( even if Delhi Police chooses to persue it to the hilt) and if money is the motivation, it is a calculated gamble - not only is it likely that such a shocking story to give a significant boost to his book, it is likely that he would become an even bigger heart-throb of the English populace and thus spin even more money. ( given that the English culture loves 'me vs the world and i won'/' i was kicked, shot, bounced, knifed but i still got up and conquered the world' plot-lines)

Banned for what? Lying (if he is)? Risking his life (if he was in the first place)?

Admittley I'm not a lawyer, but I'm struggling to see what he could be banned for?

 

[Arjun]

Hahahah, What next That he was run over by an elephant in Kolkata or bitten by a cobra in Kanpur and he survived all that.

Let me guess, it has nothing to do with cheap publicity he will get for his book, does it ??

Are you talking of these?

1. Flintoff shot in Delhi
2. Flintoff was run over by an elephant in Kolkata
3. Flintoff was bitten by a snake in Kanpur- content warning

Interestingly, the last two only appeared on SportNetwork.

 

[marc71178]

i have been close to a gunfight before

How come whenever anything has happened, you've experienced it in your lifetime?