Freddie claims he was shot at in Delhi....

[honestbharani]

Actually I did read the denial on Cricinfo by the DCA guy - he said pretty much the same thing you did, along the lines of "he's lying". What a surprise. I just can't see why Flintoff would suddenly make it up - he's got far less to gain from the whole incident than anyone else has to lose. If anything, it's just going to ensure he gets a bad reception in India when England go there.

I don't believe that such incidents could have happened. The match was covered on TV, and are we to believe that Freddie just got hit by a pellet, and did nothing and just carried on fielding at whatever position he was at? Trust me, even if there was the slightest of discussions it would have been covered on TV. And the coverage was done by Channel Nine and the Sky commentary team. IT is not like those guys would play such things down, considering the fact that some of them were part of the whiners that toured India in the past and blamed everybody but themselves for their losses.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, considering the man himself expected to have bottles thrown at him the first time he went there, I would think he is probably expecting worse for himself than any of us are from him.

Not having watched cricket in India, I can't make a judgement on the crowds myself - all I am saying is that if he went there expecting to be hit, then clearly cricketers themselves don't feel they are given the reception they warrant over there.

How come none of the Aussies, Kiwis, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans or South Africans don't feel the same way when they tour India? After reading that commentary at Cricinfo, I think something might have happened and it is a shame that happened, but to suggest that security measures are not right in India because of one isolated incident is harsh. There were bottle throwing incidents in only one other match in India since then, if I remember right, at Vizag in an ODI against the Windies.

 

[honestbharani]

People have been killed by air pistols.

I appreciate that you live in a country that subscribes to a moronic gun culture and so you have possibly been sanitised, but in my book an air pistol is an offensive weapon.

Try holding up a bank with one and see where it gets you.

I am not sure about your culture, but for me, I know that in most places in India, almost 90% of the people don't even have guns. Not sure what gun culture you are talking about. Anyways, the point is that we are not native speakers of English and when I heard that Freddie was shot at in India, my initial thought was that he was shot at with a gun and that his life was in danger. That is "oversensationalising" in our Indian books... Surely, you guys can understand that semantics of even the same language differs in different countries.

 

[Adamc]

I am not sure about your culture, but for me, I know that in most places in India, almost 90% of the people don't even have guns. Not sure what gun culture you are talking about. Anyways, the point is that we are not native speakers of English and when I heard that Freddie was shot at in India, my initial thought was that he was shot at with a gun and that his life was in danger. That is "oversensationalising" in our Indian books... Surely, you guys can understand that semantics of even the same language differs in different countries.

I think he's talking about American gun culture - Sanz lives in the USA.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, considering the man himself expected to have bottles thrown at him the first time he went there, I would think he is probably expecting worse for himself than any of us are from him.

Not having watched cricket in India, I can't make a judgement on the crowds myself - all I am saying is that if he went there expecting to be hit, then clearly cricketers themselves don't feel they are given the reception they warrant over there.

That is a wrong attitude to go in with in the first place. The crowds will like you only if you want them to like you. Surely, we didn't hear about Lee or Kasper or McGrath or Gillespie or Langer or Martyn coming into India expecting to be hit by bottles. The only time such an incident happened in Chennai was in 97 when Anwar made his 194. WE gave him an amazing standing ovation after that knock and he was moved to say that he didn't think he would have gotten a better reception even if he had done it at his hometown. But during the second half of the match when India were batting, Azhar Mehmood was fielding in the deep right in front of our stand and as usual, the crowd were starting up a bit of a banter to which he responded with some choice swears and obscene words and one of the guys (presumably drunk) threw his bottle at him. It was only a plastic bottle but my point is, if you know how to work a crowd (and most international cricketers are expected to, these days), you don't have to worry about such stuff.

 

[honestbharani]

I think he's talking about American gun culture - Sanz lives in the USA.

But Sanz is from India.

 

[Adamc]

But Sanz is from India.

Well, whatever - it's clear that LE was referring to US culture.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, whatever - it's clear that LE was referring to US culture.

yeah, sorry. But I am with Sanz here. They never allow us to carry even banners to the stadium here at Chennai. WE have to actually buy the charts and markers there and then write the slogans. We are not allowed to take lunch and this last test against Australia, they banned the carry of mobiles and cameras and plastic bottles. And I would presume the same would apply elsewhere as well, although it is known that Delhi is not the best place to play cricket in. The stadium itself is crappy and it is not the best administration in India.

 

[OZOZ]

As for the bad reception in India, rest assured, we always try to treat our guests well no matter how much wrong they have done to us in the past.

Then i guess hitting visiting players by means of plastic bottles and other objects is considered to be respectable act over there!

 

[honestbharani]

Then i guess hitting visiting players by means of plastic bottles and other objects is considered to be respectable act over there!

How many times has it happened? And remember pitch invasions and all that controversy? Wasn't that in England? The point is, apart from a few idiots, the Indian fans are almost as well behaved as anyone else in the world. And how come it is only when guys like Freddie come in, expecting to be hit, that they are targetted. I remember Lee and the Aussie guys, and some SAF guys working the crowd well and saying how much they enjoyed all the attention in INdia.

 

[OZOZ]

Pakistanis just toured India in 2005, there were treated pretty well there. They also toured India in 1998-99 when the tentions were at peak between the two countries and they gave a standing ovation after their victory @ Chennai..

I clearly remember the incident when the bus carrying the Pakistanis was attacked and Inzi was lucky to remain unhurt when a stone broke the window of the bus and missed Inzi by inches.

As far as '99 series was concerned, one of the test match in Eden Garden had to be stopped because of crowd problems (the usual bottle throwing incidents) and the stadium had to be vacated completely before the match was resumed!!

 

[OZOZ]

How many times has it happened? And remember pitch invasions and all that controversy? Wasn't that in England? The point is, apart from a few idiots, the Indian fans are almost as well behaved as anyone else in the world. And how come it is only when guys like Freddie come in, expecting to be hit, that they are targetted. I remember Lee and the Aussie guys, and some SAF guys working the crowd well and saying how much they enjoyed all the attention in INdia.

Believe it happens alot over there, when Wi played in India last time, there were three consecutive matches with crowd problem and i believe one of the match had to be abandoned.

I don't think freddie is lying here, though it would have been better had he broken the silence long time back.

 

[wahindiawah]

Its difficult to believe as to why Flintoff remained quiet on it for 4 long years, also i am not able to understand the reaction of ECB, they should have either abandoned the tour after that incedent ar they should atleast have abandoned that very match and should have protested strongly.What did ECB gained by asking their players to remain silent on the issue??

I don't think Flintoff is a liar, nor do i think he would do that just to get publicity (probably had got enough in the Ashes series) but i still find it very hard to beleive it.

 

[C_C]

I clearly remember the incident when the bus carrying the Pakistanis was attacked and Inzi was lucky to remain unhurt when a stone broke the window of the bus and missed Inzi by inches.

As far as '99 series was concerned, one of the test match in Eden Garden had to be stopped because of crowd problems (the usual bottle throwing incidents) and the stadium had to be vacated completely before the match was resumed!!

Yeah but you'd do well to realise that that kind of crowd trouble exists in every nation, including Australia, while being shot at is much more serious ( and given the security measures in IND and how Hussain and Flintoff handled it, i thikn Flintoff is given a very liberally coloured version of what happened,ie,in short, lying).

 

[maxpower]

Is he sure it was pellets and not milk duds that fell of his pockets....

 

[wahindiawah]

Yeah but you'd do well to realise that that kind of crowd trouble exists in every nation, including Australia, while being shot at is much more serious ( and given the security measures in IND and how Hussain and Flintoff handled it, i thikn Flintoff is given a very liberally coloured version of what happened).

I basically want to hear from Hussian and English team's management over the issue, what exactly have they to say over it, whether Flintoff exagerated or not will become clear once the then English team management come up with their version of the event.

 

[C_C]

I would also like some Indian players to comment on it - it is highly unlikely that he got shot at and hussain b*ched at the umpire about it and the indian players didnt catch a word of that.

What i find incredulous is that he didnt run around being sh*t scared- you see even Marines and professional soldiers scamper for cover the moment they hear ( or see) the first bullet/bullet hole...but no...Freddie just stood there.... no one is even that ballsy, not even Indiana Jones!
Plus Hussain just had a few harsh words with the umpire and kept Flintoff and the rest 10 English players on the field ?Incredible!! But if that is true, Hussain should be sued for criminal negligence and locked away for a few years.

 

[luckyeddie]

I guess basically what we've got in this thread now is an awful lot of irate people who just don't want it to have happened.

Quoting from the article concerned, it reads

"Nasser Hussain got very heated about it in the middle and Phil Neale, the tour manager, came on to find out what was going on. We carried on, but the whole thing seemed to get swept under the carpet.. Andrew Walpole, the ECB's media relations manager, told me to play the incident down..."

It's a very small part of the book, but of course it does make a sensational news headline. Incidentally, it was not a headline in The Times - just a very minor section indeed. The rest of the media (and Sanz) have just blown it out of all proportion (as usual).

 

[luckyeddie]

Plus Hussain just had a few harsh words with the umpire and kept Flintoff and the rest 10 English players on the field ?Incredible!! But if that is true, Hussain should be sued for criminal negligence and locked away for a few years.

Way to over-react. What is it - an insult to your darned race (again)?

Go and club a seal. That'll make it better. ( )

 

[C_C]

Way to over-react. What is it - an insult to your darned race (again)?

Go and club a seal. That'll make it better. ( )

Erm no, thats not overreaction - i dont know about laws in England but in Canada a superior who has knowingly asked you to endanger your life ( without it being a contract specification) is guilty of criminal negligence.

Being shot at and the superior ( captain in this case) saying 'its okay-just ignore it..now go back to yer spot' is a classic case of criminal negligence.