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English Wicketkeepers
- Thread starter IndGunner
- Start date
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Not the best keeper, not the best OD keeper/batsman but probably the best batsman in FC and Test cricket of available candidates.
Part of the problem is that there are too many options. Noone can agree on who the right guy is and that doesnt help with continuity of selection or agreement on the best route.
There are at least 5 different names that people could throw out there.
gettingbetter
State Vice-Captain
Other problem is that people want the whole package.
For England, the problem is that they are trying to find an Aussie keeper and Australia are trying to find an English all-rounder. No one is satisfied with the keeper who bats at no. 7 and averages >30.
For England, the problem is that they are trying to find an Aussie keeper and Australia are trying to find an English all-rounder. No one is satisfied with the keeper who bats at no. 7 and averages >30.
IndGunner
First Class Debutant
I guess its just the state of the world that all keepers are now picked primarily on their batting and secondly on keeping look at akmal and even to an extent dhoni.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Not sure about that comparison, Dhoni is a pretty damn decent wicketkeeper and Kamran Akmal is, well, woeful.
As to who the best English wicketkeeper-batsman is, well, the truth is since Alec Stewart (who was always the best batsman of those who could keep and always either the best or second-best wicketkeeper of those whose batting was of any note) there's been no obvious answer. That applies today as much as ever.
I still hope in time Steven Davies will fill the void, but that's still a little way away yet, though hopefully not that long.
As to who the best English wicketkeeper-batsman is, well, the truth is since Alec Stewart (who was always the best batsman of those who could keep and always either the best or second-best wicketkeeper of those whose batting was of any note) there's been no obvious answer. That applies today as much as ever.
I still hope in time Steven Davies will fill the void, but that's still a little way away yet, though hopefully not that long.
IndGunner
First Class Debutant
Well when Dhoni began his career he was not the best gloveman, he was chosen only on his batting and even then he got lucky cuz the number one choice and number 2 choice for india had someproblem or the other. back then no.1 was parthiv patel no.2 was karthik.
Precambrian
Banned
No more, Dhoni's the best wk and best bat than the others. It gives me shivers to think abt the situation where he's god forbid injured.
What happened to Phil Mustard? I thought he was an attacking cricketer?
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
My uncle's an attacking cricketer as well. I don't see how it's relevant.
Mustard's arguably better than Prior as an ODI batsman/keeper, particularly opening, but the fact that he's an attacking cricketer was a strange thing to bring up. He's pretty ordinary regardless.
On Prior, he's quite a good First Class batsman - he's batted very well at times in his short Test career so far too. He's never been much chop in one day cricket as a batsman at all though, and his wicket keeping really isn't Test standard.
Precambrian
Banned
Hmm.. that post still left me wondering, Is Mustard a better keeper than Prior in ODIs atleast?
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
His wicket keeping is of a slightly higher standard. Harder to tell with his batting. He's certainly more likely to score quickly than Prior if he gets to 40 odd but whether he'd actually average more than 20 odd opening over a long period is up for debate, especially considering the fact that he had a poor 2008 season domestically. As far as Test cricket goes, though, Mustard shouldn't be in the frame at all - his batting in the longer form is poor and he's not a particularly good keeper either.
Prior's clearly the best First Class batsman of those who keep in CC, but his keeping isn't really up to it. Ambrose actually looked pretty good to me but he really started to struggle against South Africa, especially with the bat. Foster would be in the frame as well but I don't really know a lot about him.
masterblaster
International Captain
I've heard good things about Steven Davies, although I've never seen him play. His first class statistics don't seem to bad either. I know Richard rates him somewhat, what about some of the other English fans. Is Davies the man to take over from Prior or are there other options out there such as Mustard and Ambrose?
Chris Read should have been given the gig. He was fantastic with the gloves, and he is handy with the bat. I would have thought he would have been a better option than others who seem decent with the bat (Prior, Jones to an extent) but completely rubbish with the gloves...and even then, Read probably would have done better than Jones with the bat anyway.
Precambrian
Banned
Sssshhhh.. I see El.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Have only seen him bat a few times but he's impressed me, in one-day games obviously. Seem to remember him sending the ball all over the place in a late-season pro40 game that I watched, and looked in good nick a few other times. I'd never recommend a player for international selection based on a couple of random TV domestic games, personally, but his stats do seem to back him up as well.
UncleTheOne
U19 Captain
i'm pretty sure that james foster must have made a pass at one of the selection panels wives.
Woodster
International Captain
Yes James Foster is unlucky not have been given another chance really. With regards Steven Davies, he has been impressive in a couple of one-day knocks I've seen him have. Looks elegant through the offside, not averse to going over the top of cover , and his keeping has been pretty tidy too. Would like to see a lot more of him before I make any predictions regarding his international potential.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Read was never a Test-class batsman and even though he never got a fair chance after becoming a county-standard batsman in the longer form of the game (about 2002) I don't have any real doubt about his lack of calibre for Test cricket. I think he's still the best one-day batsman of those who keep wicket in this country, and it's disappointing he was treated as shabbily in ODIs as he was.
However, his time is now gone as he's played in the ICL. He won't ever play for England again and suggesting him at any time after 2007 is pointless.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
He was never any good at all and hopefully the selectors realised they should never have picked him.
Mustard has never done anything in his career outside the 2007 season. No one-season wonder should ever be in the international frame.
I doubt he's much worse than Prior, but neither are even close to being ODI-standard and I don't want to see either opening the batting.
As far as the medium-term options for Tests is concerned (ie, until we think Davies is ready) I'm once more leaning toward James Foster. His batting isn't as classy as an Ambrose, Geraint Jones, Davies or even Prior, but he's solid and composed, and someone you can hopefully rely on to get a 30-odd coming in against an old ball more often than not. This would be a nice change from the big-score-or-nothing of Ambrose and Geraint Jones. I do and always have rated Ambrose highly, and I hope he plays both India Tests. However, if he does and doesn't perform, Foster should play in West Indies IMO.
Foster is also the best wicketkeeper of those still available (ie, everyone except Read).
As far as ODIs is concerned I don't rate Foster as a OD batsman at all and Ambrose is probably the best there is right now.
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Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Paul Nixon is the one playing in the ICL (along with Read) but Nixon didn't actually debut in ODIs until 4 years after Stewart's last game, and Geraint Jones and Read had both played in the meantime. Nixon was only ever a short-term fill-in, and he performed that short-term role with great credit.
Geraint Jones does still play, but I think we can fairly safely say he's never going to play another Test and I think everyone should be grateful for that. In the end, though I rated him as someone with potential for just about all his career, I think we can say with hindsight that he played a few too many Tests. He in 2003 was a First-Class version of Mustard in OD stuff in 2007 - one good season and he was in England colours. However, before or since, he hasn't repeated that good season. So it looks like that season was a one-off.
And yeah, lots of people thought the crop of wicketkeeper-batsmen coming through post-Stewart was good - that's why Stewart was hounded into retirement. Had we realised just how d-i-r-e things actually were, I imagine people'd have been begging him to stay rather than trying for the umpteenth time to write his obituaries.
I honestly do think he'd have done at least as well, in Tests at least, as anyone else who's played in the last 5 years. And he's 45 years old now.