English Wicketkeepers

[Furball]

Mustard would be a better bet for the ODI side than Prior.

If the selectors are insistent on having a wicketkeeper opening who'll average in the mid 20s, then it would be far better for that person to have a strike rate in the 90s than in the mid 70s.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, but ideally the chosen option would be neither average-20-with-SR-70 or average-20-with-SR-90.

I'm not much of a believer in this wicketkeeper-opener thing - I think it's more a fad based on a one-off freak (ie, Adam Gilchrist) than anything particularly sound. There is no good reason why a wicketkeeper should make a good strokeplaying opener.

As I said, Chris Read, down the order, would be the ideal choice, but sadly he's no longer available. Hence I might be tempted to go for Ambrose for the rest of this winter (Foster isn't much of a OD batsman), presuming Prior does woefully in this series, and then hopefully next summer Davies. If Davies starts next summer well with the willow in the one-day game (and he's been excellent the last 2 seasons now, so it's a decent hope) then I'd get him straight in the ODI side. And bat him at four or five.

 

[UncleTheOne]

where did the old chris read can't dive to his right rumour originate?

 

[Richard]

Probably from the fact that Geraint Jones dropped most stuff while diving to his right while Read left them for first-slip - when it was a right-hander on strike obviously (as you'd generally expect a wicketkeeper to do really).

Not sure if there was any serious analysis of Read's diving around when the ball was moving back in to the left-hander but it's an area I've seen more than one wicketkeeper struggle with. Left-handers don't get thickish inside-edges at catchable height all that often, but I've seen such things dropped on a few occasions.

 

[GIMH]

Nah, come on, Read missed far too much to his right in 06

 

[Richard]

I didn't watch Test cricket in the second half of 2006 with as much detail as most of the stuff of the last decade, so I can't really comment on whether he missed a load TBH.

 

[IndGunner]

Yea thats him nixon he did pretty good. i dunno Geriant started off so well so much promise then he just fizzled out? was he brought in too early or just not cut out for the higher level?

 

[Richard]

As I say - with hindsight, really, we can say that Geraint Jones just wasn't good enough. I backed him pretty well throughout his career, always thought he had the potential to come good. But as I say, with hindsight I think we can say he probably didn't.

His county record, 2003 aside, is distinctly moderate. He was pitched into the Test team because people got overexcited about 1 good season. And that 1 good season messed-up the Test team for nearly 3 years.

At least Ambrose and heck, even Prior, have done more to deserve their selection than that. I just hope whoever the next one is, presuming neither of the above fit the bill, has an even better case.

 

[IndGunner]

Yea I mean in the Wicket keeping department you would say england is last if not 2nd last with WI of the developed nations.

 

[Athlai]

Who will be keeper in 2 years time?

Who will be in 5 years time?

 

[Polo23]

Read was never a Test-class batsman and even though he never got a fair chance after becoming a county-standard batsman in the longer form of the game (about 2002) I don't have any real doubt about his lack of calibre for Test cricket. I think he's still the best one-day batsman of those who keep wicket in this country, and it's disappointing he was treated as shabbily in ODIs as he was.

However, his time is now gone as he's played in the ICL. He won't ever play for England again and suggesting him at any time after 2007 is pointless.

I never said he was a test class batsman. I said he was a handy batsman. He was a fantastic keeper, and that is what I like to see in a keeper, someone who can catch.

I'm not saying he should be picked now, i'm saying he should have had a fair crack at both the test and ODI side.

 

[Richard]

I never said he was a test class batsman. I said he was a handy batsman. He was a fantastic keeper, and that is what I like to see in a keeper, someone who can catch.

I prefer someone who can catch and score runs myself.

 

[Richard]

Who will be keeper in 2 years time?

Who will be in 5 years time?

Hopefully Steven Davies in both cases. But 5 years is a looooooooooooong time.

 

[Rant0r]

I guess its just the state of the world that all keepers are now picked primarily on their batting and secondly on keeping look at akmal and even to an extent dhoni.

you can't compare dhoni and akmal, dhoni is brilliant behing the sticks, which is why his place was never in doubt when he struggled in australia

 

[GIMH]

I didn't watch Test cricket in the second half of 2006 with as much detail as most of the stuff of the last decade, so I can't really comment on whether he missed a load TBH.

Ah really, how come?

Was quite an interesting season, itbt.

 

[Rant0r]

My uncle's an attacking cricketer as well. I don't see how it's relevant.

Mustard's arguably better than Prior as an ODI batsman/keeper, particularly opening, but the fact that he's an attacking cricketer was a strange thing to bring up. He's pretty ordinary regardless.

On Prior, he's quite a good First Class batsman - he's batted very well at times in his short Test career so far too. He's never been much chop in one day cricket as a batsman at all though, and his wicket keeping really isn't Test standard.

prior seemed to start his test career quite well as a keeper, overshadowed of course by the hundred, but then lost his way, apparently a problem with poor footwork, if jack russell got into his head a bit, he could be the one, his batting fell away a bit though, but he has all the tools.

for the record, read was the best since russell, brilliant keeper, but the new age obsession with keepers averaging 35+ killed him off, he could always have improved his batting, but now he's become dissilusioned and joined icl

i haven't seen enough of ambrose or any of the others to pass judgment, but i do feel that they need to stick with one for an extended period of time, they've had 6 keepers since the australian tour, and none of them were really hopeless (apart from jones), disgraceful

 

[Rant0r]

Yea I mean in the Wicket keeping department you would say england is last if not 2nd last with WI of the developed nations.

ramdhin is alright, i would say pakistan are last, akmal is terrible, but he didnt used to be, i remember ian healy took him under his wing in australia once, poor fella must have the quivvers with the gloves at the moment, that shocking media attention in pakistan doesnt help

 

[Richard]

Ah really, how come?

Work was unfortunate in regularly impinging on Thursday-Monday daytime sessions. And I kept forgetting to recharge my rechargable batteries, meaning I only had my long-wave portable radio (the old radio at old work didn't have long-wave reception) for about half the time I should have.

Was quite an interesting season, itbt.

It was, and I caught most of the SL Test and ODI series'. But the Pakistan ones, for reasons explained above, I followed only relatively loosely. I was aware of who was playing, who was scoring runs, conceding runs, taking wickets, who wasn't doing the aforementioned, etc. But no intimate details.

 

[Richard]

prior seemed to start his test career quite well as a keeper, overshadowed of course by the hundred, but then lost his way, apparently a problem with poor footwork, if jack russell got into his head a bit, he could be the one, his batting fell away a bit though, but he has all the tools.

Prior essentially had 2 bad Tests, and his other 8 were pretty good. However, the trouble is that when he was bad he was truly terrible (like 4 or 5 missed chances per game) and if you're having 1 utterly woeful game in 5 you are clearly not up to the job of keeping wicket in Test cricket.

for the record, read was the best since russell, brilliant keeper, but the new age obsession with keepers averaging 35+ killed him off, he could always have improved his batting, but now he's become dissilusioned and joined icl

I don't think Read would ever have done better than a Test average in the low-20s myself. He was certainly not, in my view, up to averaging 30+ which is essential for any Test wicketkeeper. 35+ is stretching it a bit and only a small minority of regular Test wicketkeepers will be able to do that.

i haven't seen enough of ambrose or any of the others to pass judgment, but i do feel that they need to stick with one for an extended period of time, they've had 6 keepers since the australian tour, and none of them were really hopeless (apart from jones), disgraceful

The irony is that the one who in the end probably did the worst job (Geraint Jones) got easily the most Tests. Tim Ambrose would kill for that chance, I don't doubt. And as I say above - he's actually done far more than Geraint Jones to convince of his quality with bat and gloves. Unlike Jones, he's a natural wicketkeeper, and I for one think he's a far more talented batsman who's proven his worth at county level far more than Jones ever did.

 

[IndGunner]

ramdhin is alright, i would say pakistan are last, akmal is terrible, but he didnt used to be, i remember ian healy took him under his wing in australia once, poor fella must have the quivvers with the gloves at the moment, that shocking media attention in pakistan doesnt help

u think akmal is the worst keeper of the the top 8 teams? worse than prior? i dunno bout that.