England post ashes 13/14

[wpdavid]

Aside from winning the Ashes, the best thing about this summer is that none of our young guys have been thrown to the wolves and have either spent their time learning the trade or rehabilitating

Assuming fitness and continued development, I fully expect Oz to be much stronger in 2015

I think your first point is absolutely vital in terms of how England rebuild from here. Root is looking a classic case of someone who's been thrown into the team before he's really worked out his game. Remains to be seen whether he'll benefit from this experience. My fear is that by 2015 we'll have a number of guys in their mid20's - Root, Taylor, Ballance & Bairstow - who've been tried and found wanting, so we're no better off than before they played.

Your second point is interesting. We've seen from Anderson, and Gillespie before him, how things can change almost over night once a quick hits his early 30s Are you assuming that Pattison & Cummins are likely to replace Harris & Siddle?. And what's your prediction on the Aus top 7 for 2015?

 

[Watson33]

I think KP, Anderson and Prior will all be seriously looking at themselves after this tour is over. Ben Stokes is a promising allrounder but we can't get too reliant that he will come and be the next Freddie Flintoff. There is enough up-and-coming talent coming through that will be ready next summer (Ali, Overton, Borthwick etc..) so there is no need for immediate panic. As for the wicket-keeping problem, I don't see Bairstow as the answer. I'd personally have Davies and Butler ahead of Bairstow for keeping.

 

[Riggins]

Your second point is interesting. We've seen from Anderson, and Gillespie before him, how things can change almost over night once a quick hits his early 30s Are you assuming that Pattison & Cummins are likely to replace Harris & Siddle?. And what's your prediction on the Aus top 7 for 2015?

These guys (summins, patto, starc) are sooo talented it's impossible to not hope for the best, but it's just when (if) they get *relatively* healthy for a 5 year period that will be the real test of how this team perfroms long term (next 4-7 years) imo.

 

[theegyptian]

Lees, Topley and Overton for a start. Not seen any of Ravi Patel who everyone is talking about as a future spinner for us on here but Rafiq and Dockrell (presuming we end up poaching him) are both promising and young enough to make the improvement needed.

See none of these guys are anywhere near ready. Maybe in a few years. Unfortunately some will be pushed too soon.

They've gotta go first with Ballance, Taylor, Kieswetter, Meaker(who I feel would have played this series were it not for being injured the whole of last season), Rankin, Robson, Finn, Vince, whoever and give them their chance and let them succed or fail and let players like Lees and Overton develop- unless they're exceptional and i don't think any of the 18-22 are. I'm one of the ones who have talked about Patel but he's played basically nothing. He's a vague hope at the moment- his name only being mentioned because of the complete lack of decent spinners playing county cricket. Rafiq is another who looks decent but he has struggled with form, action and injury over the last couple of years. They need time and lots of it.

We've seen the problem with promoting promising players like Root and Bairstow who have underdeveloped parts of their games. It would be a shame to see the same with Lees.

Now there is an argument that county cricket isn't going improve the player sufficiently and players like Root and Stokes are better off coming into the England team young and developing their game there rather than developing bad habits in county cricket. I can definitely see this point and agree with it. County cricket isn't a great producer of accomplished test match players. Unfortunately this means you're going to have a weaker test team for a few years whilst Root, Stokes or whoever develops a succesful international game.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Well Taylor and Compton should definitely be in the XI. I actually think that Trott was lucky to be on tour in the first place. Maybe the selectors have been seduced by the fact that Trott's average still looks "good". Hasn't he been averaging like 30 for the best part of two years? Guys like Moeen, Samit and even Bopara should be knocking on the door.

 

[social]

I think your first point is absolutely vital in terms of how England rebuild from here. Root is looking a classic case of someone who's been thrown into the team before he's really worked out his game. Remains to be seen whether he'll benefit from this experience. My fear is that by 2015 we'll have a number of guys in their mid20's - Root, Taylor, Ballance & Bairstow - who've been tried and found wanting, so we're no better off than before they played.

Your second point is interesting. We've seen from Anderson, and Gillespie before him, how things can change almost over night once a quick hits his early 30s Are you assuming that Pattison & Cummins are likely to replace Harris & Siddle?. And what's your prediction on the Aus top 7 for 2015?

Looking at our current top 7, I see 5 players with a question mark against them for 2015

Rogers - nothing more than a stop gap at his age
Watson - perennial under-achiever with the bat and only worthy of a place as an all-rounder
TPC - work in progress
Bailey - jury out at best
Haddin - old

Bearing in mind that there are 2.5 Australian fc seasons to be played until the next Ashes squad is named, youngish guys that I have seen and think have talent to go further include:

Silk
Head
Maddinson
Lynn
Burns
Wade (as a bat only unless he learns how to keep)
Mitch Marsh (batting all-rounder)
Faulkner (bowling all-rounder)
Nevill (wkb)
Whiteman (wkb)
Pierson (wkb)

However, Hughes is still the elephant in the room

The guy continues to score mountains of runs at fc level and will inevitably be given another go at test level.

And btw, for all those doubters, his test record is still better than Steve Waugh's was at the same age

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Social next ashes starts in June/July 2015 so only 1 and a half seasons away for you guys.

 

[grecian]

My team for the first Test next series

Cook
Compton
Ali
KP
Bell
Samit
Buttler
Stokes
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson

Despite the ton, Stokes isn't good enough to bat that high, if he plays it's mainly as a bowler. I've never been top of the Onions fan-club, but TBH give him a run, it can't do much worse.

Spin duties against Sri Lanka, and especially India, there's just no-one good enough, so what's the point? Ali and Patel can bowl some darters if needed. Samit will never happen trhough, so perhaps Root could get a go, but hey I'd be looking at early-season form for about a dozen options., and depending who is scoring runs, adjust the order that way, if it's Mitchell or Robson for instance.

WK is clearly my most biased pick, but TBH I wouldn't mind Davies getting a run. I oddly rate CK to score runs in Tests but don't trust his 'keeping, would be amusing if England picked him and Jos in the same team.

 

[Pup Clarke]

How can you justify including Bresnan?

 

[grecian]

How can you justify including Bresnan?

Easily there's no one better, just got to hope he can get towards peak fitness.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Geez you've got some faith mate.

 

[Woodster]

My team for the first Test next series

Cook
Compton
Ali
KP
Bell
Samit
Buttler
Stokes
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson

Despite the ton, Stokes isn't good enough to bat that high, if he plays it's mainly as a bowler. I've never been top of the Onions fan-club, but TBH give him a run, it can't do much worse.

Spin duties against Sri Lanka, and especially India, there's just no-one good enough, so what's the point? Ali and Patel can bowl some darters if needed. Samit will never happen trhough, so perhaps Root could get a go, but hey I'd be looking at early-season form for about a dozen options., and depending who is scoring runs, adjust the order that way, if it's Mitchell or Robson for instance.

WK is clearly my most biased pick, but TBH I wouldn't mind Davies getting a run. I oddly rate CK to score runs in Tests but don't trust his 'keeping, would be amusing if England picked him and Jos in the same team.

Some good picks in there, and while the Buttler selection may be tinged with a touch of bias, I agree that this guy is a very special talent and will hopefully become England's Test keeper, but I think a full season in the CC for Lancs with the gloves will tell us more. He needs a defining season also with the bat in order to force his way in, but I do think he's capable of this providing long-form cricket receives much of his focus and dedication, and not the LO formats. In the meanwhile I actually quite fancy Kieswetter to come in and do a decent job while batting at six.

I like what I've seen of Moeen Ali and he will certainly be a useful option on any sub-continent tours with the ball also, as he is a better than part-time alternative. But runs needs to be his currency.

I don't think Carberry has done anything in the Tests that Compton couldn't have done, and maybe Compton would have gone on in a couple of them. Both have had certain technical issues highlighted in their brief Test careers and neither have looked out of their depth or really made the position their own. Compton is obviously a few years younger than Carbs and for me was very unlucky not to be on this tour. Wouldn't argue with another chance for him.

Samit Patel is the one that I wouldn't really agree with. Can be a useful bowler in the right conditions but wouldn't for me cement his place as a batsman which is the reason he would ultimately be picked, and I'm not mentioning his determination to get fit issues.

The Bresnan inclusion is only acceptable if he returns to the kind of form and fitness we know from a couple of years ago.

 

[Adders]

My preference at this stage.....

Cook
Compton
???
KP
Bell
Root
Prior (backing him to come good, but he must show something for Sussex first, otherwise I'll go with Butler)
Stokes
Broad
Anderson
Finn/Onions (I want Finn in there as I still believe he's the future leader of the attack and he needs a decent run. If he isn't showing enough then Onions in the short term)

Now I need some help fixing this team.......

Obviously I need a spinner in there, and I'd also like to see us get back to 5 bowlers, which is why I assume grecian has got Patel in there? Just haven't got enough faith in him as our front line spinner (or No 6 bat tbf) I know we are going have a step down from Swann but at this stage surely Monty is our only viable choice?? And he makes it ****ing hard to get a balanced side, slip him into the team above somewhere and you have Prior at 6 and Stokes at 7 which is a spot too high for them and a very weak tail.

Got Root at 6 which is my preference for him but I have no strong objections to persevering with him at 3 if it helps with the balance and I also can't offer up an alternative for No3. The bolded are locks.

Anyone got any suggestions on tweaking this template for a side??

 

[Riggins]

ross whiteley.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Cook
Carberry
Bell
KP
Root
Woakes
Stokes
Keeper who can catch the ball (if no-one else then Prior)
Broad
Anderson
Kerrigan/Dockrell etc. or Onions

For me England should go 5 bowlers, because they'll get more out of Broad and Anderson that way. In the UK I don't think there's a great need to be picking a spinner most of the time - particularly against Asian teams. Durham won the Championship with Borthwick occasionally chipping in but 4 seamers doing the bulk of the damage. Durham's ground offers a bit for everyone, just so happens Durham's best bowlers are about 7-8 seamers. I guess ideally you want the number 11 to have some sort of x-factor or add variety (left arm, spinner, whatever). Borthwick could come in for Woakes if it looks like being a flat pitch with good weather and his batting continues as it has in 2013.

One of the things that isn't mentioned often enough is England's catching stinks and that should be a significant factor in selection.

 

[grecian]

I really do think the selectors do need to look at this as a turning-point, and really look for early-season form, and let it be known if you hold your hand up you'll be considered, no matter age (old or young), or previous.

The only problem with this theory is the Internationals start so early, and may well get the first few weeks mostly rained out. Yet still I like the principle.

Yet I think we can all say there's probably only about 6 certainties, which is really amazing considering how settled we've been for years.

I would have no problem whatsoever with going for Foster or Read as 'keeper, if they have a decent start to the season, and none of the more obvious candidates do.

 

[Pothas]

Yeah remember when the only selection issue we had to talk about was who was the 12th man? Losing is always more interesting than winning.

 

[Flametree]

Yet I think we can all say there's probably only about 6 certainties, which is really amazing considering how settled we've been for years.

I think it's only 5 actually - Cook, Bell, Pietersen, Broad and Anderson. I suspect the selectors want to include Root in that list, but they shouldn't. And on form from the past two series alone, you can make an argument against Anderson.

 

[howardj]

This series to me, at least the mindset of both teams, has shades of the 2009 Sth Africa v Australia series. The Sth Africans just months earlier reached their Summit, namely beating Australia in Australia. By contrast, the Australian team were hyper motivated; having just lost their first series in Australia since 1993. Sth Africa just weren't up for the Title Fight. Winning the Series however did not herald the beginning of a dynasty for Australia or even a revival. For Sth Africa, the Series was a mere hiccup.

England and Australia would do well to not read to much into this Ashes series. Things are not as bad for England as they seem, or as good for Australia as they seem. That said, certain fundamentals have changed for both teams. For Australia, the Lehman factor (the commonsense he brings to the table and the ability to create the right feeling within teams) will endure, while for England the loss of a truly world class spinner and batsman, and the seemingly terminal decline of Prior leave massive holes, both in team dynamics and ability.

 

[Spark]

South Africa didn't necessarily play bad cricket, though, they just lost a few key moments and were blown away by Johnson (with help from others ofc). This series has felt very different.